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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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The Spanish "Don" [parsing of Don Javier Castillo in 'The Alamo'] |
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| Registered: August 22, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | I've come across "Don Javier Castillo" in the Cast credits of The Alamo, and I wondered what the correct parsing of that name should be. I came to the conclusion it must most probably be "Don Javier // Castillo", because that "Don" is sort of an honorific in Spanish names: " It’s reasonably well known that the title “don” prefixed to a Spanish given name implies that its holder is a person of some importance – a nobleman..." http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/~coby/essays/figaro.htmIn Don Javier Castillo's personal resume it is confirmed that he is "Latin/Hispanic", just like his name and other elements suggest. A similar exampleQuote:
Encyclopedia > Pedro Dimas
Don Pedro Dimas (born 1934) is a Mexican violinist, guitarist, composer Also see http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Don-%28honorific%29Quote:
Encyclopedia > Don (honorific)
Don (usually preceded in English by the), derived from Latin Dominus, is a Spanish (pron. IPA: [d?on]) and Portuguese honorific (generally Dom).
[...]
The use is roughly comparable to the style The Honourable of British custom, but closer to Lord or Lady, although the analogy is a loose one, at best. The female version is Doña (Spanish, ....) and Dona (Portuguese, ...) abbreviated "Dª".
[...]
Don/Dom or Doña/Dona is attached to a person's given name. For example, if Señor Diego de la Vega [El Zorro..., Spanish for fox, is the secret identity of Don Diego de la Vega (originally Don Diego Vega), a fictional nobleman and master swordsman living in Spanish-era California] is to be addressed as a don, then the correct form of address would not be "Don de la Vega", but "Don Diego". . ...
[...]This term is also used by figures in Mexican organized crime.
[...] | | | | -- Enry | | | | Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | 'Don' is an honorific title and should go in the first name field so, as you have suggested, I would parse it 'Don Javier // Castillo'. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
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Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
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- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Agreed
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 315 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quite right.
Don is not a name by itself. It's more like a prefix of the 1st./given name. | | | | With every passing hour our solar system comes forty-three thousand miles closer to globular cluster M13 in the constellation Hercules, and still there are some misfits who continue to insist that there is no such thing as progress. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 165 |
| | Posted: | | | | Same as Sir in the english language, as in Sir Anthony Hopkins. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,678 |
| | Posted: | | | | While I agree that Don is a honorific title is Spanish, doesn't this possibly cause problems where Don is actually a name, like Don Siegel. Well, we know it's not a title in that case, but what if someone has a double first name and Don is the first one? Do we have to guess if it's a name or a title...?  | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
| | Registered: May 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,033 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
While I agree that Don is a honorific title is Spanish, doesn't this possibly cause problems where Don is actually a name, like Don Siegel. Well, we know it's not a title in that case, but what if someone has a double first name and Don is the first one? Do we have to guess if it's a name or a title...? If there are cases like that, and confusion comes up, provide proper documentation that it is or isn't a first name and that should be the end of it (I say should because who knows with this crowd  ) I just think it would be a problem if we have someone named Don that also has the title of Don. Then their first name is Don Don and all sorts of craziness will ensue. -Agrare |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
While I agree that Don is a honorific title is Spanish, doesn't this possibly cause problems where Don is actually a name, like Don Siegel.
Yep, short form for Donald, there. Quote:
Well, we know it's not a title in that case, but what if someone has a double first name and Don is the first one? Do we have to guess if it's a name or a title...? That's why I also documented that Javier Castillo is Hispanic. | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
While I agree that Don is a honorific title is Spanish, doesn't this possibly cause problems where Don is actually a name, like Don Siegel. Well, we know it's not a title in that case, but what if someone has a double first name and Don is the first one? Do we have to guess if it's a name or a title...? His documentation was also why I agreed with his change from the starting point the database has currently. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,678 |
| | Posted: | | | | Just to avoid any confusion; I have no problem with accepting that Don is a honorific title in this case. I just wondered what we were to do if we have someone we find no documentation for (and it's not obvious whether he is Hispanic or not).
Not a huge problem, as that's not likely to happen very often, but still it could.
In the case of FRANCOIS/François, Skip argued that we shouldn't have to know how different cultures handle things, we should just enter what we see. Well, isn't this a similar problem? Do we have to learn all the different honorifics in all different cultures in order to parse names correctly?
I'm not taking a side here, I just thought it would be interesting to hear what you all think. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | If it can't be documented then the starting point stands, we can't simply assume that Don is an honorific, after all it is indeed a shortened version of Donald. But my agreement was based on his documentation as it would be in ANY such case.
BTW Gunnar, i don't know what FRANCOIS/François has to do with this. My position there has not changed changed, It is creating data that does NOT appear On Screen. this is a totally different issue. Why are you trying to bring apples into a discussion about oranges.
If you would bother to look the data is currently parsed to the starting point. While I Enry's documentation was not conclusive or definitive, in other words could Don be the first name, it was enough to make it more likely than not that Don is a honorific for this actor. Would I LIKE to see something a bit more definitive...ALWAYS the more definitive the better.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
If it can't be documented then the starting point stands, we can't simply assume that Don is an honorific, after all it is indeed a shortened version of Donald. But my agreement was based on his documentation as it would be in ANY such case.
BTW Gunnar, i don't know what FRANCOIS/François has to do with this. My position there has not changed changed, It is creating data that does NOT appear On Screen. this is a totally different issue. Why are you trying to bring apples into a discussion about oranges.
If you would bother to look the data is currently parsed to the starting point. While I Enry's documentation was not conclusive or definitive, in other words could Don be the first name, it was enough to make it more likely than not that Don is a honorific for this actor. Would I LIKE to see something a bit more definitive...ALWAYS the more definitive the better.
Skip Yep. Let's agree to agree on this one.  GSyren: Like Skip said, this doesn't have much to do with FRANCOIS/François. Here we are talking of the parsing. You don't see parsing on screen (usually!): it's based on documented interpretation. | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,678 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
i don't know what FRANCOIS/François has to do with this. I thought I made that clear. I was referring to a specific argument that you made in that debate, namely that one shouldn't have to know about other cultures in order to know how to enter data in DVD Profiler. Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
You don't see parsing on screen (usually!): it's based on documented interpretation. I get that. It's just that "documented interpretation" wasn't acceptable (to some) in the François case, so I'm curious as to why it is in this case. If you subscribe to the "enter what you see - make no interpretation" doctrine, then this should be entered as "Don/Javier/Castillo". Now, I'm not saying that this is how I personally would want to see it. Arguments like "Enter it as best you can - if it's wrong someone else will correct it later" has been shot down in many previous discussions. Suddenly it seems to be acceptable...? | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
i don't know what FRANCOIS/François has to do with this.
I thought I made that clear. I was referring to a specific argument that you made in that debate, namely that one shouldn't have to know about other cultures in order to know how to enter data in DVD Profiler.
Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
You don't see parsing on screen (usually!): it's based on documented interpretation.
I get that. It's just that "documented interpretation" wasn't acceptable (to some) in the François case, so I'm curious as to why it is in this case. If you subscribe to the "enter what you see - make no interpretation" doctrine, then this should be entered as "Don/Javier/Castillo".
Now, I'm not saying that this is how I personally would want to see it. Arguments like "Enter it as best you can - if it's wrong someone else will correct it later" has been shot down in many previous discussions. Suddenly it seems to be acceptable...? Still an irrelevant apple to bring up when we are talking about oranges. When you do something like that Gunnar it makes me wonder. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,678 |
| | Posted: | | | | Typical Skipism to avoid discussing something  In order to know that something is a honorific title you need to know something about the particular culture, right? And you did say, in an otherwise unrelated matter, that we should be able to enter data inte DVD Profiler without knowing how other cultures handle things, right? Doesn't that mean that you are now contradicting yourself? | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Your argumenmt is completely and totally irrelevant to this discussion. As i suspected from your tone, you have betrayed your agenda. Keep the discussion on topic.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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