Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

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Ace:

You are making ASSUMPTIONS. Yes, Daredevil is unusual. The only person that you make an assumption that is different from the data is yourself.

I'm sorry. I don't follow.

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If the data says Not Rated, from an Online point of view you can't say it is R, it is NOT.

No one wants to say it's R. We want to say it's unrated. yes, unrated is equivalent to R in terms of age and yes thsi may not always be a realistic reflection of the content. However, we have to treat them as some age and 17 is more likely to be correct than 1. If you have a proposal which more accurately reflects movie content without a program change or a terribly complicated, subjective rule, please share it. If your solution is to keep it local only, you can do that no matter what Ken does.

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That seems to be the problem that you are having is that you don't seem to understand DATA and Personal (or Parental Control issues). In the case of Daredevil I am right there with you, the Theatrical Version says PG-13, the DC SAYS R, they went back to the MPAA, very unusual but they did it. By the same token I will not say that Daredevil DC is actually NC-17, that's not what the data says, Ace, it MIGHT be true for me, but it would not be correct for me to Contribute it because that wiould be my opinion whe the data FACTUALLY says something else.

Again, this has nothing to do with parental control. Parental control hides certain movies in the program, which is mainly just used to hide the pr0n. The issue here is ratings. These are useful for sorting and filtering and for the movie pick feature when you are trying to find movies appropriate for a given audience. Daredevil is MPAA-rated, so it isn't an issue. The proposed difference between unrated and not rated has nothing to do with anyone's opinion and everything to do with easily verifiable facts. (Either what it says on the cover, or whether a rated version also exists, depending which proposal is accepted.) Yes, this isn't ideal, but I think it's an improvement over what we have now. There definitely is a problem with the old system, though and I have yet to here an other proposals to fix it.

Ace:

Unrated is not equivalent to R, except to you. To me it is a lot higher than R and so is Not Rated. You are speaking as if your opinion that Unrated =R is absolute, it is simply your opinion and you are welcome to it, but I don't want you imposing your opinion upon me via the Online, and I don't want to impose my opinion on you via the Online. This is not cast data, Ace, where I can say see it type it. This is data that exists in one vein, and in the other is pure opinion and as such the hard data belongs in the Online, the opinion data only belongs in the local environment.

Quoting CharlieM:

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I am not  the only person that uses profiler in my house.  My wife also uses it, to ensure a variety of movies watched for the kids.  My kids run fro 15 down to 8.  My wife who is not computer literate, really only uses it in the most basic way.  My 15 year old wants to watch a movie, while I am at work.  My wife will pull up on the computer pg-13 and below.  If we rate all unrated at 17, those titles will not show up, and will not be available for my sons viewing.

I keep my DVD's in my office, and do not allow my children to get them.

I would much rather my child to see the covers and allow my wife to say no, then not allow my child to see an age appropriate movie for him.

This may not be a flexibility issue, but definitely alters the use.

Charlie

At the moment, NR is set as 1, which means it is the lowest rating.  So, using your example, if you set it at PG-13 and below, assuming you have unrated versions of R rated films in your db, won't those show up in the search?  Isn't it better to be safe than sorry?

I am just guessing on this as I don't use parental controls.  There isn't a cover in my collection that the kids can't look at so that isn't a problem.  I know, right off the top of my head, what films are or aren't appropriate for their age, so that isn't a problem either.  All I want, all I have ever wanted, is to enter the rating that matches the version that I purchased.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Quoting CharlieM:

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I am not  the only person that uses profiler in my house.  My wife also uses it, to ensure a variety of movies watched for the kids.  My kids run fro 15 down to 8.  My wife who is not computer literate, really only uses it in the most basic way.  My 15 year old wants to watch a movie, while I am at work.  My wife will pull up on the computer pg-13 and below.  If we rate all unrated at 17, those titles will not show up, and will not be available for my sons viewing.

I keep my DVD's in my office, and do not allow my children to get them.

I would much rather my child to see the covers and allow my wife to say no, then not allow my child to see an age appropriate movie for him.




This may not be a flexibility issue, but definitely alters the use.

Charlie

At the moment, NR is set as 1, which means it is the lowest rating.  So, using your example, if you set it at PG-13 and below, assuming you have unrated versions of R rated films in your db, won't those show up in the search?  Isn't it better to be safe than sorry?

I am just guessing on this as I don't use parental controls.  There isn't a cover in my collection that the kids can't look at so that isn't a problem.  I know, right off the top of my head, what films are or aren't appropriate for their age, so that isn't a problem either.  All I want, all I have ever wanted, is to enter the rating that matches the version that I purchased.

That is the point that I Make.  (I don't have "Adult" Titles).  In my scenario, the kids see the covers, My wife makes the ultimate decision.  In your scenario, the titles are not scene, therefore kids don't get to see movie (even though movie may very well be ok for them to watch)

And again, I must say, Unrated is not a rating.  By its very definition and the way that it is used, it is "NOT RATED"

Quoting CharlieM:

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Martian and Pete, a question for you.

Pick any DVD in your collection and tell me what the DVD release is rated.  Then Please tell me who the DVD is rated by.

Unless the DVD has nothing but the Theatrical release of the movie, without any features (commentaries, deleted scenes, or others) then the rating that is on the back is not valid for anything.

There isn't a rating for the DVD.  The Rating on the back is the CARA rating for the, more than likely, the theatrical release of the movie (except in the strange situation of the DVD release being submitted for rating (Still doesn't cover the special features.)

So technically, you are not entering the rating of the DVD you purchase.  This has always been my point (AT least for R1US)

I am not sure what your point is.  Ignoring, for the moment, the fact that DVDs are not rated in R1 land, I never said I wanted to enter the rating of the DVD I purchased.  What I want is to enter the rating for the release that I purchased.

If I purchase Saw: Unrated, I want to enter 'Unrated' in the rating field, not 'R' as it is not rated 'R'.
If I purchase The Fog: Unrated Version, I want to enter 'Unrated' in the rating field, not PG-13 as it is not rated PG-13.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Quoting CharlieM:

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Martian and Pete, a question for you.

Pick any DVD in your collection and tell me what the DVD release is rated.  Then Please tell me who the DVD is rated by.

Unless the DVD has nothing but the Theatrical release of the movie, without any features (commentaries, deleted scenes, or others) then the rating that is on the back is not valid for anything.

There isn't a rating for the DVD.  The Rating on the back is the CARA rating for the, more than likely, the theatrical release of the movie (except in the strange situation of the DVD release being submitted for rating (Still doesn't cover the special features.)

So technically, you are not entering the rating of the DVD you purchase.  This has always been my point (AT least for R1US)

I am not sure what your point is.  Ignoring, for the moment, the fact that DVDs are not rated in R1 land, I never said I wanted to enter the rating of the DVD I purchased.  What I want is to enter the rating for the release that I purchased.

If I purchase Saw: Unrated, I want to enter 'Unrated' in the rating field, not 'R' as it is not rated 'R'.
If I purchase The Fog: Unrated Version, I want to enter 'Unrated' in the rating field, not PG-13 as it is not rated PG-13.

What about all those "Directors Cut" that are included.  I looked at about a dozen in my personal and there is a rating on the back, although I am sure that most of these are technically not rated.  Are you willing to do these also, or would these be excluded.?

Quoting CharlieM:

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What about all those "Directors Cut" that are included.  I looked at about a dozen in my personal and there is a rating on the back, although I am sure that most of these are technically not rated.  Are you willing to do these also, or would these be excluded.?

If I buy the Director's Cut, and it is unrated, then that is what I want to enter.  The fact that they included the rated theatrical version as a bonus, doesn't change anything for me.  I want to profile the main feature.  The rating, run time, audio, etc., should always match the main feature.  JMHO.

Quoting GSyren:

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What you probably mean is that Unrated says that another, rated, version existed before the unrated. I don't think that's necessarily so, and you certainly cannot prove it linguistically.

This gets me to one of my main problems with this proposal: if we say the rated version has to come first, it's often unclear in what order versions were made. A lot of director's cuts were put together before the theatrical version and a lot were put together after. How do we know in most instances?

If we don't say this, we end up with stuff like Touch of Evil (except the 1998 version), and Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker under Unrated. If we go by what order they were generally released in, we have to define what a release is and bring in outside sources.