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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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 New "Unrated" Rating (Locked) |
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| Author |
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| Registered: September 29, 2008 |  Posts: 384 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
Quoting Vittra:
Quote:
I really can't understand what's so confusing about the difference between Unrated and Not Rated. Maybe it's a language issue though, so forgive me if that's the case. To "UNdo" something is to take something away that has already been done. So "UNrated" is something that has been rated in the past and then changed in some manner to become "unrated". Not Rated, very simple, it hasn't been rated...ever.
Slightly off topic, but as I am interested in languages I find it hard to let this slip by. Even though English is not my native language, I can see that this statement is obviously incorrect. You just have to look at pretty much any word that has the UN prefix to realize this.
UNfinished is not something that has been finished and now is not. That would be UNtrue, and UNtrue is not something that once was true.
Therefore Unrated is not something that once was rated. Quite the opposite, in fact. As with so many things, rating cannot be undone. Once a version of a film has been rated, it cannot be unrated. It has to be a different version (another cut).
What you probably mean is that Unrated says that another, rated, version existed before the unrated. I don't think that's necessarily so, and you certainly cannot prove it linguistically. You are quite right, and I stand corrected.  Although I do still believe that we could make such a distinction for the purposes of DVDProfiler pretty easily. And it seems this is something that many people would like, so I'm not about to prevent them from getting it just because I don't want to do a quick lock all ratings locally until a program change comes along. But again, that's just me. | | | | "The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | Adding unrated assists with the original issue - how to provide a straightforward logical rule to determine which rating to use when there are more than one on a disc. Highest rating wins. R > PG, Unrated > R, etc.
Without unrated, what should the rule be? Top billed rating? Something else? | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
Adding unrated assists with the original issue - how to provide a straightforward logical rule to determine which rating to use when there are more than one on a disc. Highest rating wins. R > PG, Unrated > R, etc.
Without unrated, what should the rule be? Top billed rating? Something else? If we are going to include "Unrated", then the rating for the DVD release should be how it is sold. If it marketed as an unrated version, and the theatrical version is included as a bonus, then give it unrated If it is marketed as a rated film, and An unrated version is included as a bonus, then the rated version gets it ( we have never rated bonus material. With that being said, I am not sure I like the idea of arbitrarily making unrated an equivalent of "NC-17", or between "R" and "NC-17". There are a lot of "Unrated" Films that actually would fall below the "R" rating, and should rightly be between "PG-13" and "R". My statement is, for Profiler purposes, we need a proper definition and use of "Unrated" so that it can be applied properly to most possible profiles. MHO Charlie | | | | Last edited: by CharlieM |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | And NR is ALSO higher than R, both of them are higher than R. Therein lies a part of the problem, you are seting a complete fiction by establishing NR=1, whikle Unrated= 17, this solves part of the sorting and filtering but not all of it by a long shot, there are still going to be titles which are inappropriately mixed together inn their sorting because of this Dora will be in the same list as whatever, if Captain Kangaroo is released as Unrated then it would appear in the same list with Beowulf. It was you who first mentioned Dora the Explorer not I, I was left with what sounded like you believing that setting NR as the lowest solved something in that regard and it doesn't. To call a Not Rated title Unrated, in order to get the sorting to work right is also a fiction, if the Rating data says Not Rated, yes it's your program and you have the right to do that, but you also set a very dangerous precedent in doing so, it is not a precedent i would set. I support being able to enter the appropriate Rating that matches the ACTUAL data, unfortunately that doesn't help the sorting and filtering, that will have to be done by some other means.
This could be done now to at least some degree as I have outlined and/or it could be done in the next version.
A departure from the data can always be rationalized, and if it is not based upon the data, it will always be ultimately bad Unrated=Unrated, it is not NR or Not rated in terms of data, they are used synonymously by Hollywood but the data is not the same. Personally I would also prefer to Not Rated added since that is what the Data really is most of the time. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
And NR is ALSO higher than R, both of them are higher than R. NR is the lowest rating, not the highest. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I tell you what. I am getting to the point that I am getting awful tired of this topic. It is like a big sadistic game of Ring-Around-the-Rosie.
I thought we were getting somewhere when Ken locked the other thread and made this post. But then we are dragged back to the point where we don't even know if we will be getting the Unrated rating again. It has gotten to the point that I could barely look at this thread yesterday.
Unrated is a rating that is put on a good portion of our DVDs... because of that I truly believe that Unrated should be added to the program so we can accurately track what is on the case whether it is believed to be a "real" rating or not. We have both NR and Adult which is also not "real" ratings. but we have them for a purpose. And in my mind this should not be any different.
I seriously don't understand what the problem with this one is. If you really don't want DVDs as Unrated... that is fine... don't accept the updates that changes them from NR to Unrated.
Sorry for this rant... but this whole topic has my head spinning... and I just don't understand the problem with it. And no I am not looking for an explanation. As I am sure nothing more can be said that hasn't been said already. Once again... sorry for the rant. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,878 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
And NR is ALSO higher than R, both of them are higher than R. As Ken pointed out, NR is lower than R. If it weren't, that would mean films like Paris Holiday with Bob Hope or Going My Way with Bing Crosby have a higher rating than Nightmare on Elm Street. As it is it means that they must share a rating with the Unrated cut of Saw. Hence, I agree with Pete. Unrated should be added to the list of available ratings. I certainly see enough of them in the shop. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Unrated is a rating that is put on a good portion of our DVDs... because of that I truly believe that Unrated should be added to the program so we can accurately track what is on the case whether it is believed to be a "real" rating or not. We have both NR and Adult which is also not "real" ratings. but we have them for a purpose. And in my mind this should not be any different.
While, I agree with the Sentiment, I think it is misguided. If we did not have the "Adult" classification to limit access to those titles, I am sure that a whole mess load of people would be up in arms. So while Adult may not be an actual rating, it does have a set and valid meaning. NR is a setting, so that the field isn't empty. I do agree, that there are a lot of DVD, that have a not rated tag on the cover, but that would be just like not having anything at all. In all realism, we could remove "NR" from the drop down, and leave the field blank if there isn't a rating on the cover. Aside from that, "NR" really has no meaning or guidance, for any other purpose. By Definition, an "Unrated" film is a title that is not rated. So by technicality, it should fit into "NR". Instead, some people want to set an age advisory for these titles. An age that is arbitrary and not truly warranted in a lot of cases. Do you feel that a majority of your "Unrated" should be MORE restricted than your "R" rated movies? And, if it isn't about parental control, then Ken should just change the wording of "NR" to say "NR"/"Unrated". That would satisfy the classification end of it. From there, you can tell through the "Edition" field, what type of title it is. MHO Charlie |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | But Charlie... that wouldn't help when I sort or Filter looking for unrated... not NR movie... but unrated movies. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | To quote myself, here's the original catalyst for this change: Quote:
Adding unrated assists with the original issue - how to provide a straightforward logical rule to determine which rating to use when there are more than one on a disc. Highest rating wins. R > PG, Unrated > R, etc.
Without unrated, what should the rule be? Top billed rating? Something else? Whatever the choice on unrated, this issue must be settled. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Since the other poll was a huge lead for wanting Unrated to be used instead of the rated version. What would that be? Highest Rating wins or what? | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
But Charlie... that wouldn't help when I sort or Filter looking for unrated... not NR movie... but unrated movies. I ask, when you filter for "Unrated" Movies, what are you filtering for? Are you filtering just to look for unrated movies, or are you searching based upon what a rating advisory is (parental age advisory). If you are just wanting to be able to islolate your "unrated" movies, there is already a way of doing that. It is called "TAG" and then become a local issue where it should be. To me, the ratings system is all about "parental advisory", otherwise, why else would we be worried about a g,pg,pg-13,r,nc-17, or even adult classification. So, if it just strictly for sorting/filtering, then i my opinion, it does not belong in the ratings. So the question in my mind, and what i think Ken is asking concerning priority of classification, is concerning an age appropriate parental advisory. Otherwise, why would we be worried about making it "UNRATED > R", or "NR" the lowest? Just asking... Charlie |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | You are making me repeat myself again.. and I am REALLY getting tired of repeating myself. So for the very last time. I (like several others) want Unrated as a rating because we see it as a different rating then NR. So we believe it should be in there with every other rating. I don't want to be forced to use tags for something I truly believe is a rating that is missing from the program.
If you can't understand that... please just agree to disagree with me and lets get this all done and over with Please! | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | If we adopt Unrated, with the following criteria:
- NR is never rated
- Unrated is an alternate version of a film which previously received a theatrical rating
That completely solves the issue of discs with multiple ratings. Highest rating wins. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative | | | | Last edited: by Ken Cole |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I can agree to disagree.... | | | | Last edited: by CharlieM |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
If we adopt Unrated, with the following criteria:
- NR is never rated
- Unrated is an alternate version of a film which previously received a theatrical rating
That completely solves the issue of discs with multiple ratings. Highest rating wins. That would work for me Ken | | | | Pete |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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