Quoting ninso4:

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I found a complete series box who has season with ean/upc in it.
The german dvd box of Veronica Mars is box with the three season boxes in it.
The parent profile of the complete box has audio, subtitles and features in it.
The three season boxes are also parent profiles with child profiles of the discs.
Remove the audio, subtitles and features from the complete series profile or not?

I would since that data should be in the child profiles of the box set (the UPC based seasons).

Quoting bbbbb:

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Quoting ninso4:

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I found a complete series box who has season with ean/upc in it.

Only one?

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Remove the audio, subtitles and features from the complete series profile or not?

Of course not. A "UPC" is neither mentioned in the TV Series nor in the Box Set rules.

Of course it should, when using the box set exception this would apply

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In addition to the above, the following are not included on the box set profile: Subtitles, Audio & Disc Features. List them with the individual profiles.

UPC is not explicitly said in the TV rules, but it is logically derived/interpreted.

If all disc level profiles are optional and the cast/crew data must also be in the parent

You cannot invoke the film box set rule unless you have a contributable required child to the parent. 

Quote:

Note: In rare cases where multiple Complete TV Series are packaged together, the Box-set rules can be applied, treating each series like a single film - applying the above rules for it’s individual profile.

Which means a UPC based season profile (since the disc level profiles are to be considered optional)

Quote:

Individual profiles for each disc may be submitted if desired, but this is not required. Add these profiles to the box set contents of the parent profile. Create each of these individual profiles in line with the standard Contribution Rules with one exception - Cover Images. If a disc, or set of discs, have their own case, use the cover images from that case. When submitting a change to an existing TV series profile that is currently a box set, do not remove the existing contents.

In either case, the cast and crew are to be entered into the parent profile using appropriate episode dividers.

So seeing that TV disc ID based child profiles are always optional the only contributable parent for TV is UPC/EAN based.

So since invoking the multi--film box set rule would require children that are required, one can logically infer that the seasons must be in UPC/EAN based packaging to use that rule.

What is being described is this model

Complete Series Set (UPC)
|- Season 1 (UPC)
|  |- Disc 1 (by Disc ID) OPTIONAL!
|  |- Disc 2 (by Disc ID) OPTIONAL!
|  |- etc
|- Season 2 (UPC)
|  |- Disc 1 (by Disc ID) OPTIONAL!
|  |- Disc 2 (by Disc ID) OPTIONAL!
|  |- etc
etc.

Except Ken's one and only clarification (that i have been able to find) tells us not to do that...

Quoting Ken Cole:

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Quoting hal9g:

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Ken,

I do have one question that hopefully you can advise us on.

We have instances where there is a conflict between using the disc ID of the first disc in a single season TV season for the "child profile" just for the first disc in that season, and that same disc ID is needed to profile the entire season when that season is a child of a "Complete Series" of a TV show.

Can you provide some guidance on this please?

My initial thought is that in either case, disc-level profiles should have content only from that disc.  How often does this occur?  Since we don't have grandchild profiles at the moment, how do you enter them currently.

The 'TV Series' section of The Rules is not a sub-section of the 'Box Sets' section. The term "Box Set" is used to define any release that includes more than one film. A TV Episode / Season / Series is no film.

Quoting T!M:

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And we have: the season child profiles can and should be submitted using the disc ID from the first disc. That's, as far as I'm concerned, exactly what the rules tell us to do. It's certainly just as much (or more!) "logically derived/interpreted" as yours...

Show me where in the rules it states we can do this. Where we can force a TV disc ID based profile to be required and alter Disc 1 to be the season profile.

We do have Ken's clarification that disc level profiles only contain what is on that disc

We do have this -

Quote:

Note: In rare cases where multiple Complete TV Series are packaged together, the Box-set rules can be applied, treating each series like a single film - applying the above rules for it’s individual profile.

Which tells us that in the rare cases we can use the box set rules, But we must "applying the above rules for it’s individual profile".  It does not state any additional exceptions to the above rules.

And that note sits right below the TV profile grid.  So "applying the above rules for it’s individual profile" refers to the rules in the TV grid.  The the above rule on disc ID based profiles states.

Quote:

Individual profiles for each disc may be submitted if desired, but this is not required. Add these profiles to the box set contents of the parent profile. Create each of these individual profiles in line with the standard Contribution Rules with one exception - Cover Images. If a disc, or set of discs, have their own case, use the cover images from that case. When submitting a change to an existing TV series profile that is currently a box set, do not remove the existing contents.

In either case, the cast and crew are to be entered into the parent profile using appropriate episode dividers.

That tells us how we can apply disc level profiles and speaks to the parent/child relationship for TV.

I see nothing in there that implies or can be logically derived based on other rules that of a season profile exists you can alter the fact that there are cases where the TV disc ID based profile required and force disc 1 to be a season parent.

This that you stated does not apply

Quote:

If a title does not have a UPC, then add the title by Disc ID, using your DVD-ROM drive.

This is in the "What to Contribute" section and clarifications exist further in the rules that places constraints on disc based profiles and how the parent/child relationship is to be handled.

The title/release does have a UPC.  The parent profile to the optional child.  When we can or cannot create child profiles is in the rules. I see nowhere where it is stated we can shoe-horn an optional disc ID based profile to be a parent profile and make them required so we can use the standard box set rule.

Please walk it through as I have.  I am just not seeing it.

Well Tim,

Do me a favor

Show me in the logic/interpretation that I showed that it violated a singe rule.

http://www.invelos.com/dvdpro/contributions/Rules.aspx

And while you are in there show me where this exists in the rules or a Ken clarification.

Quoting T!M:

Quote:
And we have: the season child profiles can and should be submitted using the disc ID from the first disc. That's, as far as I'm concerned, exactly what the rules tell us to do. It's certainly just as much (or more!) "logically derived/interpreted" as yours...

Quoting Addicted2DVD:

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And what is a clarification if not his thoughts on the subject? His thought on the matter is what I will contribute and vote by until such time he tells us otherwise.

I agree

Quoting Scooter1836:

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Do me a favor [...]

I've explained this many times, and the rules have been quoted ad nauseum as well. First, there's the rule that says to set up multi-season sets as film box sets, treating each season as a single profile, and then there's the rule that says that says that if something does not have a UPC, that we should then add it by Disc ID.

And I'm sorry, but I'm not going to keep going around the block here - I really have better things to do. As far as I'm concerned, this is what the rules say, there has never been a clarification to the contrary, and looking at the poll results, I'm certainly not the only one who feels this way - so don't try to make this just about me, just because I'm one of the people who bothered to reply. We've been having this argument for years, and nothing new has come to the table, it's always the same discussion. Some people want disc profiles, some people want season profiles, and since either can only go under the same same disc ID, no matter what, part of the userbase is going to be unhappy. There's no way to please both camps. That's unfortunate, but there's no point in going around in circles for years on end. So I'm out.

@ Ken Cole: we'd sure like to hear from you, though.