Quoting Stephan.klose:

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Quoting northbloke:

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Like Stephan, I have my doubts that bluray will be able to get a big enough foothold in the market to oust DVD.
The general public just don't seem that interested in the increase in quality as it's just not as extreme a jump as it was from VHS to DVD. The only way bluray is going to take off is to compete with the pricing of DVD hardware - and that's going to be a very difficult task!
Personally I think DVD was just too good of a success in terms of market penetration and public acceptance - any format that followed it was going to have a really hard time.
Here in the UK most people don't have HDTVs or high-end amps with 8 speakers, they look at the differences between DVD and bluray and they shrug. If this indifference isn't tackled soon, I think bluray will remain a niche format.

I have to disagree with you. The jump in quality is as high as it was from VHS to DVD. If you have a Full HD TV. I think they just aren't marketing it right

The jump is higher.

VHS...330 lines
DVD...480 lines
Blu-ray...1080 lines

There are the numbers.  Of course, that doesn't even deal with the sound differences.

Quoting northbloke:

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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:

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The jump is higher.

VHS...330 lines
DVD...480 lines
Blu-ray...1080 lines

There are the numbers.  Of course, that doesn't even deal with the sound differences.

I'm not talking about the number of TV lines, I'm talking about compression. A large picture can look just as bad as a small picture if it's compressed incorrectly.
Yes HD looks better than DVD, but I still see compression and I don't see any increase in sharpness as dramatic as between VHS and DVD.

What equipment are you using?

Quoting Stephan.klose:

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Quoting northbloke:

Quote:
Like Stephan, I have my doubts that bluray will be able to get a big enough foothold in the market to oust DVD.
The general public just don't seem that interested in the increase in quality as it's just not as extreme a jump as it was from VHS to DVD. The only way bluray is going to take off is to compete with the pricing of DVD hardware - and that's going to be a very difficult task!
Personally I think DVD was just too good of a success in terms of market penetration and public acceptance - any format that followed it was going to have a really hard time.
Here in the UK most people don't have HDTVs or high-end amps with 8 speakers, they look at the differences between DVD and bluray and they shrug. If this indifference isn't tackled soon, I think bluray will remain a niche format.

I have to disagree with you. The jump in quality is as high as it was from VHS to DVD. If you have a Full HD TV. I think they just aren't marketing it right

I have a 1080p TV and I totally think the the difference is about the same as it was between DVD and VHS. There were some good VHS tapes too. Still my question was if, even while providing a much better quality, will blu ray really ever become as mainstream as dvd?

Quoting northbloke:

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These have been demonstrations in shops, so a variety of equipment.

Well, my point is about the quality of the equipment or the setup. Since they aren't yours, there is no telling if the projector was even calibrated or not (most likely not), let alone what resolution was actually being projected.

It is common for the equipment to cause the compression artifact problems you mention, especially in a store.

In all fairness, I see artifacts in some blu-ray discs as well but it is such an over-all improvement over standard DVD that it's difficult to go back to standard DVD. To my eye, the difference between the high-def formats (true 1080p) and standard DVD is on par with the difference between VHS and DVD. In some cases the difference is more pronounced.

With that said, I have a couple high definition discs that I shouldn't have purchased (ie. Spartacus) because there is almost no discernible improvement over the standard DVD at all. In the case of Spartacus, it is better to get the Criterion release and call it done, at least until a new transfer is completed with a full restore.

To the specific title you mention, Cars, the blu-ray version is much better than the standard DVD. Even the colors are far better in blu-ray. You might like to check out the color improvements in "Dinosaurs" on blu-ray as well. The dinosaurs go from a greenish or brownish-gray, depending on the character, on the standard DVD to actually having color in the blu-ray release.

Quoting Dan W:

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Quoting northbloke:

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These have been demonstrations in shops, so a variety of equipment.

Well, my point is about the quality of the equipment or the setup. Since they aren't yours, there is no telling if the projector was even calibrated or not (most likely not), let alone what resolution was actually being projected.

It is common for the equipment to cause the compression artifact problems you mention, especially in a store.

In all fairness, I see artifacts in some blu-ray discs as well but it is such an over-all improvement over standard DVD that it's difficult to go back to standard DVD. To my eye, the difference between the high-def formats (true 1080p) and standard DVD is on par with the difference between VHS and DVD. In some cases the difference is more pronounced.

With that said, I have a couple high definition discs that I shouldn't have purchased (ie. Spartacus) because there is almost no discernible improvement over the standard DVD at all. In the case of Spartacus, it is better to get the Criterion release and call it done, at least until a new transfer is completed with a full restore.

To the specific title you mention, Cars, the blu-ray version is much better than the standard DVD. Even the colors are far better in blu-ray. You might like to check out the color improvements in "Dinosaurs" on blu-ray as well. The dinosaurs go from a greenish or brownish-gray, depending on the character, on the standard DVD to actually having color in the blu-ray release.

I have the equipment in the shop set up correctly and at home and like you I seldom see artifacts and such. I even watched "Terminator" on Blu Ray and the quality was well above a standard SD presentation. Do you agree with me the step from DVD to Blu Ray is comparable to VHS to DVD?
(I am talking about bought VHS Tapes. Not tapes that were copied 10 times before you got it!)

Quoting surfeur51:

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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:

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The jump is higher.

VHS...330 lines
DVD...480 lines
Blu-ray...1080 lines

DVD is 576 = 330x1,75
1080 = 576x1,87

The jump is quite the same.

In visual impression, the jump between VHS and DVD was far more impressive than between DVD and HD.

I would say that also depends. If you compare a good original VHS Tape with a DVD there isn't really that much difference. Except for some screen noise. And of course the way better sound on DVD.
If you compare a DVD to a Blu Ray on a Full HD Screen, there is also a quite noticeable difference.

Let's just say the difference of quality is about the same. OK?

Quoting surfeur51:

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Quoting Stephan.klose:

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I would say that also depends. If you compare a good original VHS Tape with a DVD there isn't really that much difference. Except for some screen noise. And of course the way better sound on DVD.
If you compare a DVD to a Blu Ray on a Full HD Screen, there is also a quite noticeable difference.

Let's just say the difference of quality is about the same. OK?

I disagree. An excellent original VHS is really awful in front of the same film in DVD. A DVD read with a good upscaler is not so different from the same film in blu-ray.

We were't talking about upscalers before. I was talking about a regular DVD. With upscaling the difference is not as big as between VHS and DVD. Yes, I agree, you win!

Quoting Mark Harrison:

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I can't believe people are arguing about this.  The difference in quality is purely subjective and will very from person to person based on equipment, equipment calibration, screen size, seating distance, personal expectations/biases, eyesight, movies being compared and on and on and on.

There is no right or wrong answer.  HD is an improvement over SD in most cases.  How much of an improvement can't can quantified.  It's up to each person to decide if the improvement is worth the extra cost or not.

It wasn't my intention at all to create this discussion when I created this thread. I wanted to know if people think if Blu Ray will ever be as mainstream as DVD. or (like the title said) will it be the Laserdisc of the 21st century. A superior product, that not a lot of people buy.