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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Audio: Invalid combinations? |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Staid S Barr: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting Staid S Barr:
Quote:
If we can do this from the DVD menu [...]
We can't.
If the DVD menu allows me to select between 5.1 and 2.0, I take that as being the audio tracks, unless there are strong indications to the contrary. But in most cases, I wouldn't look furhter. And I am willing to be that most users don't either...nor do the rules tell them they have to. The rules tell us to "Use the Audio specified on the DVD Cover unless you can verify there is a discrepancy between that and the actual Audio included on the disc." They go on to say, "Include all audio tracks which are selectable via one or more of the following: The disc menu The player's Audio Track selection button Autoplay when the content is started" If those match what is specified on the cover, then I see no reason to look any further. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Staid S Barr:
Quote:
If we can do this from the DVD menu [...]
We can't. Unless I am misreading, the rules say we can.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,734 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting Staid S Barr:
Quote:
If we can do this from the DVD menu [...]
We can't.
Unless I am misreading, the rules say we can. As always, it's a start. Maybe I should have said "We can't, if we want to be accurate", but I though that was obvious. Apparently not... Let's do the long version, then: it's no more different than entering the running time from the cover. That's fine, too: the rules don't force us to do any more than that. But as soon as someone comes around who does check what the actual running time is, then that actual data supersedes what's on the cover. That applies here as well: yes, as a starting point the rules simply allow you to enter what you see without checking, but again, as soon as someone audits the actual data, then that's what should be in the profile. I've found DVD covers and DVD menu's to be wildly inaccurate about these things, so I never ever just go by what I see on the cover or in the DVD menu. Just like I never enter the running time from the cover, but always check the actual running time from the disc. No, the rules don't demand that I do that, but I still do. The key is that, per the rules, such information always supersedes the often incorrect and/or incomplete data that is seen on covers and in menus. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 5,734 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Staid S Barr: Quote:
If the DVD menu allows me to select between 5.1 and 2.0, I take that as being the audio tracks, unless there are strong indications to the contrary. But in most cases, I wouldn't look furhter. Only that "2.0" is not a format in Profiler, you'll have to decide between "2-Channel Stereo" and "Dolby Surround". How do you make this decision without looking further? | | | | Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect] |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting Staid S Barr:
Quote:
If we can do this from the DVD menu [...]
We can't.
Unless I am misreading, the rules say we can.
As always, it's a start. Maybe I should have said "We can't, if we want to be accurate", but I though that was obvious. As always, I can only go by what you wrote, not what you meant to be 'obvious'. Quote:
Apparently not... Let's do the long version, then: it's no more different than entering the running time from the cover. That's fine, too: the rules don't force us to do any more than that. But as soon as someone comes around who does check what the actual running time is, then that actual data supersedes what's on the cover. I don't believe I said otherwise. Quote:
That applies here as well: yes, as a starting point the rules simply allow you to enter what you see without checking, but again, as soon as someone audits the actual data, then that's what should be in the profile. Again, I don't believe I said otherwise. Quote:
I've found DVD covers and DVD menu's to be wildly inaccurate about these things, so I never ever just go by what I see on the cover or in the DVD menu. Just like I never enter the running time from the cover, but always check the actual running time from the disc. No, the rules don't demand that I do that, but I still do. The key is that, per the rules, such information always supersedes the often incorrect and/or incomplete data that is seen on covers and in menus. I don't know about 'wildly' but, once again, where did I claim otherwise? You said we can't get that information from the menu. That statement, per the rules, is incorrect. That is all I was saying. Please note, I am not trying to be difficult. I just don't want people to think they have to download programs and evaluate all the audio tracks when it isn't required. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 5,734 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Please note, I am not trying to be difficult. That would never have occurred to me. Quote:
I just don't want people to think they have to download programs and evaluate all the audio tracks when it isn't required. I agree that people have to evaluate data when it is required. | | | | Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect] |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bbbbb: Quote:
I agree that people have to evaluate data when it is required. I don't know what you are agreeing with because, according to the rules, it isn't required...nor should it be. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: June 21, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,621 |
| | Posted: | | | | Another program that shows the active channels is dvdshrink, which I think is freeware. No good for Blu-ray, but great for standard dvds. Again though, anything 2.0 is goning to say 2 channel, but not distingush mono from surround from stereo.  |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm with TheMadMartian on this one.
I take the data from the DVD cover. I don't know how to differentiate the various Audio formats and have no interest in learning how to.
If someone wants to do further research in this area I have no problems with that. But, I am going to spend my limited contribution time on other areas.
That is how this database should work - each member contributing as they wish while following the invelos guidelines. | | | | Last edited: by Kathy |
| | Registered: May 2, 2009 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 490 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Staid S Barr: Quote:
I am actually surprised that we pay so much attention to sound detail, whereas for the picture we do not even distinguish between monochrome and color...  That's actually a very valid point... I definitely think there should be a tick box for e.g. 1080p vs. 1080i. For HD titles, that is. And then the color system. Let's cause some confusion about the picture too, hehe.  On a personal note, I only have a simple 2.1 audio setup, but I have a full HD TV... (Which doesn't mean that I don't care about the sound, only my budget is limited.) | | | | Last edited: by MikaLove |
| | Registered: May 30, 2008 | | Posts: 445 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have another audio track question that should be easy so I didn't want to start yet another audio track thread, and here it is:
We're entering only audio tracks / audio streams associated with the main feature, right?
This would exclude the audio tracks of featurettes / trailers / etc.
Finally: I've been studying this more with VLC and it ends up showing lots of audio streams, only some of which seem relevant to what we want for the main feature.
For example:
Audio streams pop up for
Various studio splash screens
FBI, etc., copy warning screens
The feature main menu
And then only finally for the feature when you press "play movie"
I think we're only interested in what happens after the "play movie" part. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 20,111 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lasitter: Quote:
This would exclude the audio tracks of featurettes / trailers / etc. Quote:
I think we're only interested in what happens after the "play movie" part. Yes, we only add audio tracks from the main movie or TV episode. Featurettes, Trailers, and others are invalid entries as far as audio goes. | | | | Corey |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Staid S Barr: Quote:
I understand that, but can we really expect contributors to start looking for such problems, (...) ? (...) No, we can't. And it is not needed for new profiles. But if you want to correct an existing profile, you'd better make that your contribution is correct (at least better than the existing data). |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 5,734 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting Staid S Barr:
Quote:
I understand that, but can we really expect contributors to start looking for such problems, (...) ? (...)
No, we can't. And it is not needed for new profiles. But if you want to correct an existing profile, you'd better make that your contribution is correct (at least better than the existing data). Generally speaking this is my point of view. For technical specifications, like Run Time, Video Formats, Audio Tracks, Subtitles, the description on the cover is a reasonable beginners starting point. | | | | Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect] |
| | Registered: May 30, 2008 | | Posts: 445 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm going to propose a new feature for some future version of Profiler that I think would be invaluable in helping folks like me get a "leg up" on accuracy in this area.
This idea builds on what we already have working for the disc information contribution, where a user just inserts a disc and clicks on a button and then provides us with what we want.
This new feature would involve clicking on audio tracks while the target DVD was inserted, and then clicking something like the "browse" button, then having the user navigate to the VTS_01_0.VOB file (or whatever), and then clicking on that.
Then, some open source code from a collaborative project like VLC could be called up to interrogate the file for audio tracks, pre-populating the pulldown fields as a starting off point for the contributor.
This would at least get the sequence of the audio tracks dead-on (a significant source of error from what I've seen), and then provide presumptive values that could be tweaked if other utilities required.j |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lasitter: Quote:
I'm going to propose a new feature for some future version of Profiler that I think would be invaluable in helping folks like me get a "leg up" on accuracy in this area.
This idea builds on what we already have working for the disc information contribution, where a user just inserts a disc and clicks on a button and then provides us with what we want.
This new feature would involve clicking on audio tracks while the target DVD was inserted, and then clicking something like the "browse" button, then having the user navigate to the VTS_01_0.VOB file (or whatever), and then clicking on that.
Then, some open source code from a collaborative project like VLC could be called up to interrogate the file for audio tracks, pre-populating the pulldown fields as a starting off point for the contributor.
This would at least get the sequence of the audio tracks dead-on (a significant source of error from what I've seen), and then provide presumptive values that could be tweaked if other utilities required.j I believe such a “feature” would require not only a knowledge of what files need to be scrutinized on the part of ordinary users but also the installation of additional third party software that many users would be reluctant to do. It would also require users, in the case of Blu-ray discs, to have a Blu-ray drive installed in their system or at least an external drive. | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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