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adult entry without rating
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Registered: Apr 11, 2004
Registered: May 26, 2007
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In my shop here in Kentucky, we have a very small Adult section.  It is inside a glass case at our counter.  Some DVDs we have had in there recently include:
- Kite
- Mezzo Forte
- La Blue Girl
- Ninja Love
- Angel of Darkness (live-action)
- Colorful
- The Wild, Wild World Of Jane Mansfield
- Bettie Page: Dark Angel

Colorful really doesn't belong in the section, as it's a 17+ anime OAV about guys looking up girls skirts, rather than actually being hentai/etchi, but my boss would rather err on the side of caution.

We no longer take any live-action hardcore porn, but when we took those DVDs we had a separate room for them.  Right now most of what we take is hentai, but we'll take the occasional live-action hentai or softcore feature.  I'd take Playboy DVDs, and I'd keep them in the case.  We would consider Girls Gone Wild in the same section. 

Another film that would have gone in the case is Cheeky!, because of the cover. 

Basically, if my boss thinks that a parent would be upset by their kid looking at it, he will put it in the case.  Caligula doesn't go in there because the cover is not explicit.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJimmy S
Registered: March 15, 2007
Canada Posts: 1,982
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________
 Last edited: by Jimmy S
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMassL
Registered: May 17, 2007
Germany Posts: 21
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Quoting VirusPil:
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Quoting MassL:
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Now I recontributed the profile (by adding "Porno" to genre) and it was accepted... strange, because the sequels are not rated either and don't have "adult" (or "Porno") added. So are there new rules or noobs@work?    I mean, if a movie is not rated, the movie is automatically only for adult or am I wrong?


With which rating? Porno? Or Spio/JK od. ungeprüft?

Ungeprüft.

Quoting VirusPil:
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Quoting xradman:
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Quoting MassL:
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Okay, then the law in America is another. In Germany every movie, which has been not rated, is automatically indexed by law and for adults only, no matter what kind of movie it is.
But still the question, why the other contributions were accepted...

From a practical point of view, I find that hard to believe.  That means every movie ever made that is available in Germany has been rated or it's indexed???

Not completely correct. There are two rating types in Germany: FSK rating and SPIO/JK rating.
FSK rated movies are allowed to sell to the rated age, allowed to show in selling room, advertisment allowed, ...
Spio/JK rated movies are just allowed to sell to adult, no showing in selling room, no advertisment, ...

Not rated movies are not automatically indexed. They have the same restrictions as SPIO/JK rated movies, but if they're against law and would get indexed the release company gets disciplinaries. That's why it's hard to get not rated movies in Germany. (Just porn movies are most times not rated)

But not completely correct either. Only SPIO/JK with "strafrechtlich unbedenklich" (no severe danger to youth) aren't allowed to sell openly or to advertise them. SPIO/JK with "Keine schwere Jugengefährdung" (not in violation of applicable criminal law) are allowed to sell openly und to advertise them:

Wikipedia:
Quote:
SPIO/JK certificates

If a movie does not comply with FSK basic principles (eg glorification of violence), a rating can be denied. A movie which is not rated by FSK is checked for possible violation against applicable law by a jurist agency (Juristen-Kommission, JK) of the Spitzenorganisation der Filmwirtschaft (SPIO). The JK compiles certificates for the reviewed movies. Approved movies receive one of two classifications:

    * Keine schwere Jugendgefährung or no severe danger to youth. While these movies are considered by the Juristenkommission to represent a danger to youth, this danger is not perceived to be considerable. In German this is sometimes known as a leichte Jugendgefährdung or mild/slight danger to youth. Films with this certificate may still be only sold on the open market as with films rated FSK 18, but are subject to indexing.
    * Strafrechtlich unbedenklich or not in violation of applicable criminal law - Movies given this certificate are usually considered to be a severe danger to youth but do not violate criminal law. A failure to achieve such a certificate is usually attributable to an expected violation of 131b of the German Criminal Code, but may also be in violation of child pornography legislation or the display and promotion of symbols, songs or political ideologies in violation of the constitution (e.g. National Socialism). It should be noted that the awarding of this certificate does not constitute a legal decree. The movie in question may still be confiscated at a later date if decreed by a court of law, as demonstrated with Hostel 2. These films may not be sold openly, even if the film in question has not yet been indexed. Due to their not being certified by the FSK, these movies are also subject to indexing.

While not obligatory, it is common to display a rectangular, black and white logo with "SPIO/JK geprüft" and the JK certificate granted. These movies may be additionally indexed (blacklisted) by the German Testing Centre for Youth-Endangering Media. JK/SPIO certified films are usually indexed within a month or two or publication with only a few exceptions, e.g. Virtuosity.


Quoting VirusPil:
Quote:
Quoting MassL:
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... But just movies with an SPIO/JK rating, an old FSK18 rating or without any rating can be put on index or can be banned.
...

I don't think so. In general all movies could get banned or indexed.

But I also never heard about an movie with less than FSK 18 that get banned/indexed.

Sorry, not correct. Unfortunetly there isn't an entry an the English version of Wikipedia, but in the German:

Wikipedia:
Quote:

Bei Kinofilmen wird ein FSK-Kennzeichen verweigert, wenn der Film offensichtlich schwer jugendgefährdend ist; eine FSK-Freigabe ist nur bei einer höchstens „einfachen Jugendgefährdung“ und bei einer etwaigen „Jugendbeeinträchtigung“ möglich. Wird der gleiche Film dann auf einem Bildträger (Videokassette, DVD) veröffentlicht, wird ein Kennzeichen bereits verweigert, wenn ein Fall von einfacher Jugendgefährdung vorliegt.[2]  Filme, die eine „FSK-ab-18“-Kennzeichnung haben, können von der Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien nicht mehr indiziert werden. Auch wenn ein Verdacht auf einen Straftatbestand (beispielsweise Gewaltverherrlichung, § 131 StGB) besteht, kann die FSK-Freigabe verweigert werden. In diesem Fall kann der Film der Juristenkommission (JK) der SPIO vorgelegt und auf strafrechtliche Unbedenklichkeit geprüft werden. Trotz der entsprechenden Prüfung der JK kann ein Film sowohl indiziert als auch beschlagnahmt werden, jedoch schützt das entsprechende Signet die Beteiligten weitgehend vor individueller strafrechtlicher Verfolgung.

Only movies with an old "FSK18" rating before 2003 can be put on index, but now even movies with an "Keine Jugengefährdung" can't. Only "SPIO/JK" rated movies and those old "FSK18". But you can also read the law in JuSchuG §18 Absatz 8. Movies, which were rated by FSK can't be indexed.
 Last edited: by MassL
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting AESP_pres:
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Wiich is not the case at all... Nudity doesn't equal adult at all, unless you (general you) always live in the fifties. In the title I've listed as exemple one is a sex education film for the young teenagers, but it must be tag as only for adult here. So yeah colour me confused if you wish, but the genre system is faulty...

By the way even if the software is done by an US devellopper the database is an international one, so there is no reason to push the puritan US view on the rest of the world.

But I've absolutly no hope to see that part of the program ameliorate as long as puritan will run the show. You can select individually what you want or don't want to be shown online and the rating does the parental control. So there is no reason to have a vague genre who means nothing for that...

And yes it's an important issue for me as my post history since 2007 shows. What can I say for me it's important to see reality and not general confusing non-sense to please the people who live in the Middle Ages.

I had a completely different response typed up, then I got to your second paragraph.  Bottom line, because the database resides in the US, and can be accessed by anyone, Ken has to follow certain rules and regulations.  Clearly you have chosen not to understand any point of view other than your own so, beyond that, there is no point in discussing this further.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting VirusPil:
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But the not rated and the adult rating don't have a difference imho. So why ask the screeners for the Adult (Porno) rating?

But there is a difference as the program treats them differently.  Unrated does not mean adult, it simply means unrated.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAlien Redrum
Proudly blocked by liars.
Registered: August 23, 2008
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Quoting AESP_pres:
Quote:
By the way even if the software is done by an US devellopper the database is an international one, so there is no reason to push the puritan US view on the rest of the world.


"The Puritan" US view? Really? Over generalize much?

If the US was as 'puritan' as you claim, I'm fairly certain Reno would not have legalized prostitution. Or porn would be illegal to make and distribute. Or low-budget movies like Gutterballs would be outlawed.

That's a ridiculous label to put on an entire country based on how a piece of software decides to handle a submission or what you see on TV.

I'm quite sure you would not want someone generalizing a person must have serious issues and live in their parent's basement if they keep a blog on Adult film reviews, because it's obviously not the case, right?

What is deemed inappropriate is in the eye of the beholder, and to make a broad statement about an entire country based on limited information (especially for someone who doesn't live in this country and is only working on assumptions and what they might have heard secondhand) is a little ridiculous.

I understand your passion, I can get behind it, but when you make such a ridiculous statement, you lose credibility because it's not just inaccurate, its only intent is to take a shot. Especially since (mostly) every country has some sort of system deeming what's appropriate and what's not appropriate for children, not just the US, and they all can be criticized for one reason or another.
Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com

"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Quoting Kathy:
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I have to agree with AESP_pres, I have never seen any non-XXX DVDs covered in Buffalo.

We have a lot of stores that specialize in XXX films and the DVDs aren't covered there either! 

I am not talking about stores that specialize in XXX films.  When I go into my local Tower Records...at least when I did, the films with adult content are in the adult section with little black pieces of plexiglass in front of them.  My local store closed, but I found an image on-line that will give you an idea of what I am talking about.


While this image shows the magazine section, you can see the 'Adult' and 'Adult DVD' signs as well.  Everything deemed 'adult', not just XXX, will go into this section of the store.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
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Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
Basically, if my boss thinks that a parent would be upset by their kid looking at it, he will put it in the case.  Caligula doesn't go in there because the cover is not explicit.

Thanks for your post Cass, from what I can tell, Ken is doing the exact same thing...and I don't blame him one bit.  I know a some people don't like it, but it is what it is.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAlien Redrum
Proudly blocked by liars.
Registered: August 23, 2008
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
Basically, if my boss thinks that a parent would be upset by their kid looking at it, he will put it in the case.  Caligula doesn't go in there because the cover is not explicit.

Thanks for your post Cass, from what I can tell, Ken is doing the exact same thing...and I don't blame him one bit.  I know a some people don't like it, but it is what it is.


Pretty much. Of all the things to worry about regarding the software, this would be the least of them for me.
Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com

"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorVirusPil
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Registered: January 1, 2009
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quoting VirusPil:
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But the not rated and the adult rating don't have a difference imho. So why ask the screeners for the Adult (Porno) rating?

But there is a difference as the program treats them differently.  Unrated does not mean adult, it simply means unrated.

As explained: For German law it is the same. Both have the same phrases on cover (from which we take the rating), so for locality Germany it would be more correct if they would be treated the same.
The rating the users choose are just a personnel preference/opinion. 

An unrated movie can be porn or something different.

Btw, why did MassLs contribution now get through with no change in rating, but the addition of Genre Porn? This was not what the Screeners wanted in their first decline.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJimmy S
Registered: March 15, 2007
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----------------
 Last edited: by Jimmy S
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAlien Redrum
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Quoting AESP_pres:
Quote:
Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote:

I'm quite sure you would not want someone generalizing a person must have serious issues and live in their parent's basement if they keep a blog on Adult film reviews, because it's obviously not the case, right?


Are you serious? I am 40 years old and I did leave the familly house when I was eighteen...
Do you have something better to do than replying at every post I do? I don't like you and you don't like me, I don't really care about the oppinion you have of me 

Anyway I block you since I'm tired of you so no need to reply...


WTF?

You did not read my entire post, or did not get it. Because it quite clearly says "it's obviously not the case."

However, you proved my point that you would not want someone generalizing. It's not a cool thing to do.

And I have no idea where you got the I don't like you/You don't like me. That certainly came out of the blue. 
Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com

"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo.
 Last edited: by Alien Redrum
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMassL
Registered: May 17, 2007
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Quoting VirusPil:
Btw, why did MassLs contribution now get through with no change in rating, but the addition of Genre Porn? This was not what the Screeners wanted in their first decline.

They didn't accept the rating "not rated" because in America for eample, now as I know from comments here, that not rated doesn't mean for adults only. Actually just in Germany it is. And "porno" is in the original language version (english) the genre for "adult". And I think the German language version should be overworked in this case... or the knowledge of screeners about ratings in Germany...
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Registered: Apr 11, 2004
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For AESP:

Yep, we're talking about the SWV release.  It ended up in the case because the cover looked sketchy.  Same as Colorful did.  Basically because, unlike Caligula, it looked sexy and we wouldn't sell it to someone under 18.  It looked like something a pre-teen boy might try to snag, unlike Caligula. 

As I said, my boss likes to play it safe.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
 Last edited: by Danae Cassandra
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJimmy S
Registered: March 15, 2007
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 Last edited: by Jimmy S
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorVirusPil
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Quoting MassL:
Quote:

They didn't accept the rating "not rated" because in America for eample, now as I know from comments here, that not rated doesn't mean for adults only. Actually just in Germany it is. And "porno" is in the original language version (english) the genre for "adult". And I think the German language version should be overworked in this case... or the knowledge of screeners about ratings in Germany...

But know it got accepted with no change of the rating. That's what looks a bit strange to me. If we would know what changed the decision, we would know what to do to get the correct rating into a profile.
Just for clarification, I've no problem to give porn movies the Adult rating, but I need clarification what should be entered with wich rating. (If it is because of international reasons)

Edit: Should read the op better.    Adult for rating or Genre. Does both lead into the same filtering? Still a bit strange imho. And if someone could clear me up I would be thankful.
 Last edited: by VirusPil
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