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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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The most recent update for Terminator 2 |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 28, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,299 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I don't see how it matters whether it is a logo or not as the rules don't make that distinction. If we can enter it, using a standard key board, then that is what we enter. Got it. So "T2 TM" it is then. I'll make the contribution later tonight. Unless you can tell me why that wouldn't be within the rules. | | | Tags, tags, bo bags, banana fana fo fags, mi my mo mags, TAGS!
Dolly's not alone. You can also clone profiles.
You've got questions? You've got answers? Take the DVD Profiler Wiki for a spin. | | | | Last edited: by Astrakan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
I disagree. The rules specifically ask for the title of the DVD, and to take that title from the front cover. They don't ask us to recreate logos, even if those logos are made up of text. That to me is making a distinction. If I'm asked to enter the title, I'll enter the title not a text-based logo representing that title. Again, the rules don't make that distinction. We are told to take the title from the front cover and that's it. There is nothing, in the rules, that says a title can't also be a logo. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Astrakan: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I don't see how it matters whether it is a logo or not as the rules don't make that distinction. If we can enter it, using a standard key board, then that is what we enter.
Got it. So "T2 TM" it is then. I'll make the contribution later tonight. Unless you can tell me why that wouldn't be within the rules. Is this really the road you want to go down? Well, here is your answer... For the same reason we don't include 'Nicole Kidman' & 'Hugh Jackman' as part of this title: Australia Region 1 Released: 3/3/2009 Anamorphic 2.35:1 Or 'TM' as part of this title: Hulk: 2-Disc Special Edition Region 1 Released: 10/28/2003 Anamorphic 1.85:1 Or 'Nicholas Cage' as part of this title: Bangkok Dangerous Region 1 Released: 1/6/2009 Anamorphic 1.78:1 Or 'A Steven Spielberg Film' as part of this title: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: The Collector's Edition Regions: 1, 3, 4 Released: 5/29/2001 Anamorphic 2.35:1 Because it isn't part of the title. 'T2' is short for 'Terminator 2'. The only way you could add 'TM', to that title, is if you believe it to be 'Terminator 2 Trademark'. Is that really what you believe? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 28, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,299 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Because it isn't part of the title. 'T2' is short for 'Terminator 2'. The only way you could add 'TM', to that title, is if you believe it to be 'Terminator 2 Trademark'. Is that really what you believe? Nope. But neither do I believe that T2 is part of the title or even an abbreviation of the title, since it leaves out the "Judgment Day" part of the actual title. What I do believe is that T2 is a graphical representation of the title, but just because we can more-or-less replicate it using a keyboard doesn't mean we should enter it in the title field. I wouldn't suggest we make the following changes either: MIB Men in Black  Daredevil DD  The Mask of Zorro Z  But judging from some of the support this change has received, it would seem a fair number of you would like to see those changes made. | | | Tags, tags, bo bags, banana fana fo fags, mi my mo mags, TAGS!
Dolly's not alone. You can also clone profiles.
You've got questions? You've got answers? Take the DVD Profiler Wiki for a spin. | | | | Last edited: by Astrakan |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Astrakan: Quote:
Nope. But neither do I believe that T2 is part of the title or even an abbreviation of the title, since it leaves out the "Judgment Day" part of the actual title. What I do believe is that T2 is a graphical representation of the title, but just because we can more-or-less replicate it using a keyboard doesn't mean we should enter it in the title field. We are not after the 'actual' title, we are after the title of the release. As I have shown in an earlier post, sometimes it will be 'Terminator 2: Judgment Day', sometimes it will be 'T2: Judgement Day' and sometimes it will be 'T2'. Per the rules, that is what we have to enter. Quote:
I wouldn't suggest we make the following changes either:
***SNIP***
But judging from some of the support this change has received, it would seem a fair number of you would like to see those changes made. No, a fair number of us would not like to see those changes made. Why? Because, unlike T2, your examples include the title of the release, along with the logo, on the front of the case. If they didn't, then, and only then, would I use the 'logo' as the title...making sure to put the 'actual' title in the original title field as the rules require. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
These are quite a compelling argument. You trouble maker you!   Actually, because he is comparing apples to oranges, they aren't.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 28, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,299 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
We are not after the 'actual' title, we are after the title of the release. As I have shown in an earlier post, sometimes it will be 'Terminator 2: Judgment Day', sometimes it will be 'T2: Judgement Day' and sometimes it will be 'T2'. Per the rules, that is what we have to enter. Then why even bring up that T2 is a short form for Terminator 2? Only if we accept that stipulation does it not make sense to include TM. If we don't, if we say that T2 is the DVD title then TM really ought to be a part of it. I see nothing in the rules that says otherwise. Seeing as how we're talking about blindly following the rules without applying our own thoughts and logic. Quote:
Because, unlike T2, your examples include the title of the release, along with the logo, on the front of the case. If they didn't, then, and only then, would I use the 'logo' as the title...making sure to put the 'actual' title in the original title field as the rules require. Ah, I see. And where is that covered in the rules? | | | Tags, tags, bo bags, banana fana fo fags, mi my mo mags, TAGS!
Dolly's not alone. You can also clone profiles.
You've got questions? You've got answers? Take the DVD Profiler Wiki for a spin. | | | | Last edited: by Astrakan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Astrakan: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
We are not after the 'actual' title, we are after the title of the release. As I have shown in an earlier post, sometimes it will be 'Terminator 2: Judgment Day', sometimes it will be 'T2: Judgement Day' and sometimes it will be 'T2'. Per the rules, that is what we have to enter.
Then why even bring up that T2 is a short form for Terminator 2? Only if we accept that stipulation does it not make sense to include TM. If we don't, if we say that T2 is the DVD title then TM really ought to be a part of it. I see nothing in the rules that says otherwise. Seeing as how we're talking about blindly following the rules without applying our own thoughts and logic. As I explained here, I know that 'T2' is the title because it stands for 'Terminator 2'. I also know that 'TM' is not part of the title because it stands for 'trademark'. It is there because 'T2' is trademarked. That fact, however, doesn't mean it isn't also a title...see 'The Hulk', which has 'TM' next to it for the same reason, in that same post. I honestly don't know how I can make it any clearer than that. Quote:
Quote:
Because, unlike T2, your examples include the title of the release, along with the logo, on the front of the case. If they didn't, then, and only then, would I use the 'logo' as the title...making sure to put the 'actual' title in the original title field as the rules require.
Ah, I see. And where is that covered in the rules? You know, as well as I do that the rules are not specific in this area...at least I hope you do. The rules tell us where to get the title, but they do not tell us what form the title should take nor do they tell us, except for a few instances, what text on the cover actually is the title...there is no way they could cover every instance, so it is as it should be. That being the case, just like I know 'Nicole Kidman' & 'Hugh Jackman' aren't part of the title of 'Australia', I know that 'MIB' isn't part of the title for 'Men in Black'. If it were just 'MIB' on the cover, then that is what I would use, but it isn't, so I don't. Again, I don't know how I can make it any clearer than that. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
|  | Blair | | Resistance is Futile! |
| Registered: October 30, 2008 | | Posts: 1,249 |
| | Posted: | | | | In my opinion at least for this particular example, 'T2' is no more the title of the film than the Batman symbol or Superman shield. 'T2' and 'MIB' in particular are abbreviations/representations of their films which are well-accepted by the movie public in the same way as the Batman symbol except that, by design, they can actually be typed out or spoken. If you talk to someone who knows absolutely nothing about movies, telling them to "go to see either 'T2' or 'TRHPS'" would mean nothing to them any more than holding up a picture of the Batman symbol and saying "Go see this movie."
It is because all of us are familiar with film that we accept and understand these abbreviations, but it does not make them titles, ergo 'T2' is merely a text-based logo and "Terminator 2: Judgment Day" should be used instead. (I also believe that if it was something like only 'H' printed on the cover which is supposed to stand for the 2003 film 'Hulk' -- an abbreviation which is not an accepted abbreviation for said film by movie public -- even though it can be typed out, we wouldn't be having this discussion and would instead use "Hulk" as the title.)
This would also mean the examples Astrakan gave in an attempt to make a point would then be canceled out (eg: "Men in Black" -- and not "MIB Men in Black" -- would be the accepted title since MIB would be eliminated though being merely a representation of the film, not a title or part of the title.)
Since we are all familiar with DVDs and it's through that basis that this discussion is able to keep circling, let me give a non-DVD example of the above.
"You need to go out and buy a GM."
Now, unless you know something about the context of what I meant, then you have no idea what "GM" means. It's not a title; it's a text-based representation of a name, in this instance for General Motors car company. | | | If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
He who MUST get the last word in on a pointless, endless argument doesn't win. It makes him the bigger jerk. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,655 |
| | Posted: | | | | I realize I'm in a minority (me and Surfeur against the world?), but to me a logo is not the same as a title. And that goes for T4XI, Se7en, Thir13en Ghosts and whatever, as well as T2.
But it seems clear that we can never get an agreement one way or the other, so I guess there's nothing for me to do but lock those titles and carry on... | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
|  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,735 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I know that 'MIB' isn't part of the title for 'Men in Black'. That's nice. Unfortunately, this very subtle and entirely unspoken (as far as the rules are concerned) distinction you're making is lost on quite few users - and that really should come as no surprise. If the policy is to slavishly recreate any kind of logo we see on the cover in other cases, then people are bound to enter 'MIB' as well. Just to show you where this has led us, here's a quick look in the database at a few of those 'Men in Black' profiles....   Off-topic: one also has to wonder how on earth the 0-000000-000000 Blu-ray profile got into the database - isn't there some kind of check on the validity of the EAN-code? | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
I realize I'm in a minority (me and Surfeur against the world?), but to me a logo is not the same as a title. And that goes for T4XI, Se7en, Thir13en Ghosts and whatever, as well as T2.
But it seems clear that we can never get an agreement one way or the other, so I guess there's nothing for me to do but lock those titles and carry on... Little offtopic: The film credit title is also Se7en, so you just want to ignore the filmmaker's choice and the actual data? I don't know how the film credit titles are in your other examples. But even then there's an original title field for the film credit title. | | | | Cor |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,742 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I know that 'MIB' isn't part of the title for 'Men in Black'.
That's nice. Unfortunately, this very subtle and entirely unspoken (as far as the rules are concerned) distinction you're making is lost on quite few users - and that really should come as no surprise. If the policy is to slavishly recreate any kind of logo we see on the cover in other cases, then people are bound to enter 'MIB' as well. Just to show you where this has led us, here's a quick look in the database at a few of those 'Men in Black' profiles.... There are also 11 MIIB titles in the DB | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
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| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,655 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote:
Little offtopic: The film credit title is also Se7en, so you just want to ignore the filmmaker's choice and the actual data? Short answer: Yes. Long answer: For me it's still a logo, even if it's in the opening credits. So, yes, for my local database I chose to ignore it. Edit: And although it's not relevant for Profiler purposes, the credit block (at least on my copy) calls it "Seven". Draw your own conclusions... | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar | | | | Last edited: by GSyren |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,217 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Off-topic: one also has to wonder how on earth the 0-000000-000000 Blu-ray profile got into the database - isn't there some kind of check on the validity of the EAN-code? Jipp, unfortunately the checksum for twelve zeroes is ... exactly 0 ...  Me thinks Ken was a bit lazy there and didn't intercepted this exception in the validity-check. cya, Mithi | | | | Mithi's little XSLT tinkering - the power of XML --- DVD-Profiler Mini-Wiki |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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