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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests Page: 1... 6 7 8 9 10 ...17  Previous   Next
New naming system
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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Quoting TheFly:
Quote:
Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:
I know I sound like the arrogant American here, but I'm sorry.  I am more than happy with usint 3 names and I resent like hell someone telling me I should change things because that's not the way it's done somewhere else.  My only comment to them is "TOO BAD.  Learn to live with it and GET A LIFE."

I'm fascinated how people can make comments like this, and simultaneously other people can claim that those arguing for a change in the way names are handled are doing it for their own cultural reasons. A little hypocrisy there amongst the American users, no?

The answer's simple - this isn't a cultural way of doing things because Americans don't have any culture!       

(Joke, BTW)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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And I understood kdh's statement precisely and it made perfect sense.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
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Registered: March 14, 2007
Posts: 3,830
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Quoting pauls42:
Quote:

Try to read all the posts by someone before taking something out of context.
The sentence
I really do not see why the word rule is used here.
was in answer to skip suggesting that surfeur should search for strings using the substring filter. And quite reasonably surfeur asked what searching using the substring filter had to do with the rules?

The actual full post was..

Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:

    Follow the Rules and use the substring filter for your searches.

Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:

You are sometimes slightly obtuse. Rules are for contributions. The program is made to manage DVDs collection, and has other features than only contribution. I really do not see why the word rule is used here.

You may then have noticed that:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
We are in the request forum. If the request is accepted,rules will have to be changed.
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributor?
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting TheFly:
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First/Middle/Last is an American cultural way of describing names. The concept of "middle name" doesn't even have a direct translation in some languages, so how are foreign users meant to understand how to use it when it's not in the rules? There's not even agreement about how it should be used amongst the American users (is it given/given/family or strict screen position?).


If you bothered reading my post you may have noticed, this is also used in other countries!
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributor?
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting northbloke:
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The answer's simple - this isn't a cultural way of doing things because Americans don't have any culture!        (Joke, BTW)

Did the US inherit this from the UK? (bigger joke)
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
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Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:

Eliminating middle field HAS some value, as I wrote before:

Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Some examples taken among the online for movies I have:

Reverend Thomas//Bermingham
Reverend/Michael J./Thomas
Reverend/John/Nicola
Reverend William/J./Parham
Frère Jean-Philippe// Revel

The interest of two fields seems evident..


Only one field would have sense with a sort field, but we add a huge job, as there are tenths of thousands sort fields to add, and with two fields and a checkbox, only some hundreds boxes to check.

And don't forget the cases of stage names that is not correctly handled at present time (Miou-Miou sorted before A.)





All of your examples above are quite clear to me as to how they are handled.  They all have "Salutations/Titles" in them which are already covered in the Rule:

Reverend Thomas//Bermingham
Reverend Michael/J./Thomas
Reverend John/Nicola
Reverend William/J./Parham
Frère Jean-Philippe// Revel

I still do not see how two fields makes one bit of difference for these.

Sort fields would not be all that tough.  If Ken decides to do this, he simply writes a small routine that moves the current "Last Name field into the "Sort" field and runs that against your local data base when you convert to the new version.

Ken's pretty clever.  I have no doubt that he could pull that off! 
Hal
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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I don't think there is an answer to solve all problems with cast and crew names.Whether there is 2 fields or 3 fields we will have parsing problems. Some middle /2nd-3rd (and so on) given names (whatever you want to call them) can look like last/Surnames. I know some women that has legally changed their last name to their middle name so not to lose it... I also have known parents to give their child (male or female) the mother's maiden name as their middle name. When it comes to a person name there is no rule on how it can be done. So I don't see how changing to only 2 fields will help with this matter whether the names of the field is changed or not. You will still have the same data entry problems and not know for sure where to put which names for a lot of the cast/crew.

I think... if it was my program and was up to me how I personally would do it is...

1. Single Name Field... with a single name field there is no question what name goes into what field. No need to try to figure out what is the first middle or last name.

2. Rules for use... simply type what you see in the credits... as credited. If the name is not written with the English alphabet (i.e. Chinese) You write it as it is read in Chinese... if it reads as Chow Yun-Fat... that is how you put it in profiler. If it reads as Yun-Fat Chow... then that is how you put it into profiler. If you have some movies credits that reads one way... and some that read the other way... then you use the CLT to determine which is the "common name" and use the "credited As" field as needed.

I know this solution would not make as many people happy... as you would lose the ability to have names listed Last Name, First Name... but in this case I think ease of entry would be more important. Which if I am not mistaken is something even Ken said he has to stride for at times... and I personally think this is one of the places that it would be best to consider that line of thinking.

That's my on the matter for what it is worth.
Pete
 Last edited: by Addicted2DVD
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Because you want to fundamentally change the way we enter data fro Contribution and THROW out hundreds of thousands of man-hours of labor, just to appease your cultiural sensitivities that is why. You tried once and failed and this too shall fail for the same reason.

I have tried for years to seek a diplomatic solution to this issue. But usaers such as yourself, Fly and north have graphically demnonstrated that you have an agenda, and it is the elimination of the Contribution Rules. I will no longer be diplomatic and I will resist your attempts to destroy the database simply to assuage your cultural problems. Get over , follow the Rules and use the substring filter for searches.

And now you DARE to say my opinion is irrelvant, angry does not cover it. Furious is far too tame. Enraged...maybe.

Skip


Skip,  calm down before you have a stroke! 
Hal
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
I really do not see why the word rule is used here.

And now is the cat out of the bag and your intentions becomes clear: you are after the rules! At first we had guidelines, the guidelines became rules to protect us from users like you.

You've taken Surfeur's statement out of context. As Paul says, within the context of the whole conversation, Surfeur's statement was perfectly reasonable.


sorry, i did not take anything out of context, You may then have noticed that:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
We are in the request forum. If the request is accepted,rules will have to be changed.
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
France Posts: 4,479
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Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote:

sorry, i did not take anything out of context, You may then have noticed that:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
We are in the request forum. If the request is accepted,rules will have to be changed.


I already noticed that you were completely stupid, but to that level, it's amazing.

Rules speak of three fields. If the request to go to two fields is accepted, yes, you have to change this part of the rules. This is not an attack against rules, but a fact.
Images from movies
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributor?
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Registered: March 14, 2007
Posts: 3,830
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Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
I don't think there is an answer to solve all problems with cast and crew names.Whether there is 2 fields or 3 fields we will have parsing problems. Some middle /2nd-3rd (and so on) given names (whatever you want to call them) can look like last/Surnames. I know some women that has legally changed their last middle name to their middle name so not to lose it... I also have known parents to give their child (maile or female) the mother's maiden name as their middle name. When it comes to a person name there is no rule on how it can be done. So I don't see how changing to only 2 fields will help with this matter whether the names of the field is changed or not. You will still have the same data entry problems and not know for sure where to put which names for a lot of the cast/crew.

I think... if it was my program and was up to me how I personally would do it is...

1. Single Name Field... with a single name field there is no question what name goes into what field. No need to try to figure out what is the first middle or last name.

2. Rules for use... simply type what you see in the credits... as credited. If the name is not written with the English alphabet (i.e. Chinese) You write it as it is read in Chinese... if it reads as Chow Yun-Fat... that is how you put it in profiler. If it reads as Yun-Fat Chow... then that is how you put it into profiler. If you have some movies credits that reads one way... and some that read the other way... then you use the CLT to determine which is the "common name" and use the "credited As" field as needed.

I know this solution would not make as many people happy... as you would lose the ability to have names listed Last Name, First Name... but in this case I think ease of entry would be more important. Which if I am not mistaken is something even Ken said he has to stride for at times... and I personally think this is one of the places that it would be best to consider that line of thinking.

That's my on the matter for what it is worth.


even with one field you don't solve the parsing problem as I allready have shown before. The reason why we have 3 fields for names, may be program speed, i guess. And why do you think a database is designed with more the 1 field for names? Not for the fun of it. And redesigning a database is no fun either.

After all you only after a glamour feature, showing the names in reversed order so the Azian people would not been hurt in their feelings. So their listing would show Wizard Giga instead of Giga Wizard.
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantTheFly
Registered: March 18, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 103
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Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote:
If you bothered reading my post you may have noticed, this is also used in other countries!

The point is that it is not used in *all* countries, and even where it is used, first/middle/last names can ALWAYS be mapped to given names or family names.

The reverse is not true, since there is no agreement and no way to prove (since there is no accepted definition) whether a particular given name or a family name counts as "first", "middle" or "last".

To summarise: first/middle/last only has meaning in some countries (and even then the meaning is disputed). Given/family has a universal, international meaning. This is a program with an international customer base and hence it should use the option which accommodates everyone.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
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Quoting Giga Wizard:
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even with one field you don't solve the parsing problem as I allready have shown before.


You've said this a couple of times.

Please explain, with examples, how a name could be parsed into a single field more than one way.

You simply enter it exactly as it appears on screen. 
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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As I wrote between the single field and the Rules update I would have done.. there would be no problem with parsing at all... you put as it is listed in the  credits. If it is not in the English alphabet you put it as it reads if you were to read it... then there is no question on parsing what so ever. How you see/read it is how you put it into the field.

As for whether it is designed with 3 names for any other database purpose... Only Ken can say as it is his database... he knows what he can and what he cannot do with it.

Other then that as I said... that is how I, personally would do it... it is only my opinion on the matter.
Pete
 Last edited: by Addicted2DVD
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
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Quoting TheFly:
Quote:
Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote:
If you bothered reading my post you may have noticed, this is also used in other countries!

The point is that it is not used in *all* countries, and even where it is used, first/middle/last names can ALWAYS be mapped to given names or family names.

The reverse is not true, since there is no agreement and no way to prove (since there is no accepted definition) whether a particular given name or a family name counts as "first", "middle" or "last".

To summarise: first/middle/last only has meaning in some countries (and even then the meaning is disputed). Given/family has a universal, international meaning. This is a program with an international customer base and hence it should use the option which accommodates everyone.


Sorry, but given name here = First Name

Middle Name = Middle Name

Just because it's not a "Surname"does not automatically make it a "Given Name".  That's your cultural terminology.

I know you'd like it to be different, but it's not.
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributor?
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting  surfeur51:
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I already noticed that you were completely stupid, but to that level, it's amazing.
 
calling words at every one opposing you!
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
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