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Invelos Forums->General: Website Discussion |
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Forum Rules Update |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | THIS FORUM IS IN DESPERATE NEED OF LONG TERM IF NOT PERMANENT BANS! MODERATORS (AKA KEN) PLEASE ACT!
Beginning with....
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting goblinsdoitall: Quote:
For those of us who care for a more friendly environment: this might help:
- If you don't have anything use- or helpful (or at least humorous) to ad to the discussion: Stay out, there will be other topics when your opinion is asked again.
- If you get attacked in a discussion you need to distinguish between:
a) attack on your opinion: This usually is OK, that's what I'd call discussion.
b) attack on your person: NOT OK, feel free to use the "Red Arrow", but under no circumstance respond to the attack, the average attack will soon stop if there's no response.
c) Don't mix up a) and b) !! This. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
And we need to expect that not everyone will be polite posters. Pete you know it's a wrong statesment. In our favorite forum we are more and more posters and I never seen any single impolite post from anyone. Some teasing sure and it's normal since most of us know each others from quite some time, but rudeness never and I'm sure it won't be tolerated at all. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yeah... I see that as we being pretty lucky on that site... but do I believe such a thing is possible on a whole everywhere? Not a chance. Especially when it comes to a place that is more meant for a product and how to do things. Like I said... in a perfect world yes... but in real life everywhere? nope.
And while it is MUCH MUCH less... there has been some posts there that I felt was a bit on the rude side. Though I think I am more sensitive to it then most people... even though I try not to comment on such things. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,337 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Yeah... I see that as we being pretty lucky on that site... but do I believe such a thing is possible on a whole everywhere? Not a chance. My favorite forum is quite polite too, so at least its possible  |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lyonsden5: Quote:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
I still have a (relatively) young back. I can take the criticism. 
The bottom line is that the forum rules do not demand that users always be polite. Moderation can be taken to extremes, and if I don't want to be alone here with Katatonia and Kahless (not that that would be bad for me, but I imagine it would get boring for them), we have to allow some leeway.
Actually I see the opposite of what you fear. Not only would you not be alone with Katonia and Kahless but IMO people would return and posting would increase. Many now either fear posting as they don't want to get the abuse or they simply don't post cause it's not worth the aggravation they are likely to receive.
Just today someone dared question a statement made by our favorite troll and he was blasted for it. And do we really have ot mantion the "newbie snacks"[/b] 
I think you're looking at it completely wrong.
Good to know we don't have to be polite here though.  Well said. This sums it up pretty well for me, too. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Yeah... I see that as we being pretty lucky on that site... but do I believe such a thing is possible on a whole everywhere? I frequent a couple other forums that don't have the issues here. Is it possible everywhere for everyone to get along, as you said, not a chance. But it doesn't have to be as bad as it is on occasion here, either. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lyonsden5: Quote:
Most users only post a couple times a day though and aren't the center of every real discussion. That's why I find the block so effective. There are threads where you can find the occasional disturbance, which then gets filtered. In the p***ing-contests, where the block would admittedly be useless, I'm really trying not to participate anymore. Usually there's nothing in there but hard feelings (and wet pants, of course  ). I'm not always successful with my strategy of not reading threads that are longer than two pages (hey, I don't want to miss all the fun), but I found that this helps too. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
Yeah... I see that as we being pretty lucky on that site... but do I believe such a thing is possible on a whole everywhere?
I frequent a couple other forums that don't have the issues here. Is it possible everywhere for everyone to get along, as you said, not a chance.
But it doesn't have to be as bad as it is on occasion here, either. I didn't say it did or didn't have to... as I said... I personally believe that isn't up to anyone other then Ken to decide on the balance of things. It is after all his site. From there it is up to each individual person to decide if it is good enough for us to continue. That is just how I personally, honestly feel on the matter. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
Quoting goblinsdoitall:
Quote:
For those of us who care for a more friendly environment: this might help:
- If you don't have anything use- or helpful (or at least humorous) to ad to the discussion: Stay out, there will be other topics when your opinion is asked again.
- If you get attacked in a discussion you need to distinguish between:
a) attack on your opinion: This usually is OK, that's what I'd call discussion.
b) attack on your person: NOT OK, feel free to use the "Red Arrow", but under no circumstance respond to the attack, the average attack will soon stop if there's no response.
c) Don't mix up a) and b) !!
This. As long as users can rack up 6 or 8 moderated posts in a day and still keep on posting, the use of the Red Arrow is nothing but a sugar pill. If the penalty for having a post moderated was more severe, perhaps (b) would work. Attacks on the person should be moderated and penalized. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
Yeah... I see that as we being pretty lucky on that site... but do I believe such a thing is possible on a whole everywhere?
I frequent a couple other forums that don't have the issues here. Is it possible everywhere for everyone to get along, as you said, not a chance.
But it doesn't have to be as bad as it is on occasion here, either.
I didn't say it did or didn't have to... as I said... I personally believe that isn't up to anyone other then Ken to decide on the balance of things. It is after all his site. From there it is up to each individual person to decide if it is good enough for us to continue. That is just how I personally, honestly feel on the matter. Fine if Ken is to decide the balance of things, it would be nice for the posters to know what is allowed and what is not. It's completely vague right now on what is really allowed, and what is punishable. Right now, as I see it, you can slam a person's country, say bigoted things, crap on numerous people and all that happens is your posts are removed. On the rare occasion one is suspended, it's max is three days, then you are back doing it again. It that's the way it's going to be, fine, but call it for what it is. Let's not pretend there's not a problem. I disagree that the posters on the forum shouldn't have a say in the what the environment should be like when they have paid for the program that this board is a part of. Granted, you don't have to pay for the forum, but if you want to utilize all the features Profiler has to offer, you have to come here. Why shouldn't the people who gave Ken money not have a say in coming to a forum where they can ask a question and not get defecated on? These are the same people that are contributing to the database to make Profiler better for Invelos, and creating awesome plugins to make Profiler a better program. They should have some sort of voice on being able to start a thread with a question about parsing or name submission without the hell fire being rained down.  | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
As long as users can rack up 6 or 8 moderated posts in a day and still keep on posting, the use of the Red Arrow is nothing but a sugar pill. If the penalty for having a post moderated was more severe, perhaps (b) would work. Attacks on the person should be moderated and penalized. Gotta agree with James on this one. There are some users that, no matter what the subject, almost always make it personal. Until those users are penalized, in a significant manner, things will never change. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
I will ask Ken however,
"THIS FORUM IS IN DESPERATE NEED OF LONG TERM IF NOT PERMANENT BANS! MODERATORS (AKA KEN) PLEASE ACT!"
Is this an appropriate signature or a blatant violation of TOS.
Skip The second thing. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,695 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quote:
b) attack on your person: NOT OK, feel free to use the "Red Arrow", but under no circumstance respond to the attack, the average attack will soon stop if there's no response. I must confess I have a hard time with this. Not so much because I feel a need to respond to the personal attack, but more because the attack is usually a way of avoiding to respond to an argument. So if I let it drop, then the attacker will (at least seemingly) have won the argument. And will have done so with very unfair means. And that really bothers me. My weakness, I guess...  | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar | | | | Last edited: by GSyren |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Just my two cents about those forums' atmosphere.
First, the poisonous atmosphere is mainly concentrated in Contribution Forum. We have other parts where everything is very friendly, often because the subjects are less sensitive, also because in some cases those forums are never visited by the most bully users.
Why do we have so many problems in contribution forum? I see several reasons, some needing moderation, but the main one is that we have two diametraly different conceptions supported by two types of users : those for whom contributing per the rules is a hobby, the only important thing being for them to feed the online with data matching the rules, and those who see the online as a source for other users and wish to see there the most useful data. This second category of users have some severe critics against some of the rules, and this generates a conflict with those who totally agree with rules. Among the first category, we have also hot discussions between people who have different interpretation of the same rule. I understand those discussions, and even think it is not a bad thing to expose different opinions in order to make things improve. That becomes very bad when we get personal attacks against people, directly, or indirectly when trying to lower the value of their arguments suggesting they have no credibity.
To make things go better, we need a merciless moderation against the most insulting offences, which is not really done. But it also needs that each of us (of course I include myself in this) admits that the opinion of other users is legitime, even if they disagree, and do not try to manipulate others' thoughts, or try to discredit their honesty. Hot discussion about the rightness of a rule is a good thing, polite suggestion of somebody else being stupid is a very bad thing.
I also can add that many misunderstandings could be better solved via PM, when discussion is not twisted by other users' comments. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
Quote:
b) attack on your person: NOT OK, feel free to use the "Red Arrow", but under no circumstance respond to the attack, the average attack will soon stop if there's no response.
I must confess I have a hard time with this. Not so much because I feel a need to respond to the personal attack, but more because the attack is usually a way of avoiding to respond to an argument. So if I let it drop, then the attacker will (at least seemingly) have won the argument. And will have done so with very unfair means. And that really bothers me.
My weakness, I guess... This is not how I would see this. In my experience the one that has to take refuge in unfair means usually has already "lost" the discussion. The other thing is that I refuse to see discussions as something you can win or lose. You can exchange your arguments, but only very scarcely will see that the other participant(s) change their POV because of yours. At least not in the heat of the discussion. There are exceptions to this, I admit that, and I really appreciate those that have the greatness to admit that they were wrong (or at least convinced that the other side might be correct too). But you don't see this very often. The (IMHO) only possible way to handle a direct personal attack is to ignore this and continue with the discussion. Usually there are other participants, if not, another way could be to tell the other participant, that you were just offended. Do this in a polite way. If the attack is continued, end the discussion. It's not worth it any more. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
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Invelos Forums->General: Website Discussion |
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