Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1  Previous   Next
Elliot Page and Common Name
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAndyEN
Registered: May 25, 2007
Posts: 130
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
We all know what Elliot Page's common name is. I don't think we need to list all the titles. Where things get tricky is that the transgender community strongly opposes any use of dead names. I don't agree where it comes to the issue of notability; for better or worse he has greater notability under his dead name (rhymes with Helen if you don't keep up with celebrity news) than his preferred name. But since his is credited for both seasons of Umbrella Academy as Elliot and everywhere else under the dead name, how do we best address this? The convention is to go with the common name, but since this if I understand right is more a preference on this site rather than a hard and fast rule, do we want to respect what his wishes seem to be for this sort of thing?

And please let's not go into one's personal opinions on gender dysphoria and focus solely on the naming aspect.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhuskersports
Registered: September 29, 2008
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 2,573
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Well, for Profiler purposes it would be Ellen. And since there's 40-ish titles in the database that way and only 2 for Elliot, it will be a long time before the common name switches. If one prefers, they can always use Elliot as the common name in their local database only.  I do that for a few names in my local (use a person's better-known (to me) name). But if you're contributing a common name update to the online database, it would be Ellen.
My one wish for the DVD Profiler online database: Ban or remove the disc-level profiles of TV season sets. It completely screws up/inflates the CLT.
FACT: Imdb is WRONG 70% of the time! Misspelled cast, incomplete cast, wrong cast/crew roles. So for those who want DVD Profiler to be "as perfect as Imdb", good luck with that.
Stop adding UNIT crew! They're invalid credits. Stop it!
 Last edited: by huskersports
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 1,669
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
List her common name which is Ellen.
 Last edited: by rdodolak
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,343
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
For database purposes, you just follow the rules. Nothing else matters.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAndyEN
Registered: May 25, 2007
Posts: 130
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
For database purposes, you just follow the rules. Nothing else matters.


Which is one reason I raised the question. The rules aren't explicit that you attach a cast or crew member to their common name. For Credits, this is the only reference to common name:

"It is not necessary to document the source of the common name, outside the use of the CLT. If there is a dispute over whether the credit references the same person, documentation may be necessary. However, in most cases it is not required."

That would certainly seem to favour the common name but the rules don't explicitly say you have to default to it. In fact the rules provide a scenario where using the common name would not be permitted:

"Military rank/affiliation or other honorifics should be included in the 'Credited As' field. Example: a credit of "Cpl. John Smith, USMC" should be entered as First Name: "John", Last Name "Smith", Credited As "Cpl. John Smith, USMC""

Let's say hypothetically that Cpl. John Smith, USMC was an actor's common name. You would nevertheless list them as John Smith.

Don't get me wrong: I lean towards the common name in this instance myself. I'm just pointing out that it's not an explicit rule and more something unofficial that pretty much everyone agrees on. So I wanted to hear people's thoughts on whether anyone thought this should be an exception since the rules don't explicitly answer that.

Regardless, if we're going with the common name, then Page needs to be added to the list of confirmed common names. So another reason I created this thread was to flag that in the event that things went that way, which seemed probable.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,343
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
All that is stating is Military Rank/Affiliation is an exception to that rule. What you are listing here is the same as a legal change of name which we would handle with the credited as.
Pete
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,211
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Pete is correct.  That is not an exception to the common name rule, it is a clarification.  Military rank/affiliation and other honorifics are not names, they are exactly what they are so we ignore them.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAndyEN
Registered: May 25, 2007
Posts: 130
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Yeah, I probably shouldn't have used the rank example. It derailed my point which was that I couldn't find any common name rule in the Credits section of the rules. Could someone point me to where the rule is spelled out explicitly? I get that there's this passage:

"It is not necessary to document the source of the common name, outside the use of the CLT. If there is a dispute over whether the credit references the same person, documentation may be necessary. However, in most cases it is not required."

But I'm asking if it's stated more explicitly somewhere else. The above seems implicit rather than explicit, though i get with Ken Code being mostly absent nowadays we have to work with what we've got.

I mainly ask because I'm on the spectrum and have OCD. Since people keep referring to a common name rule I keep wondering if I'm overlooking some passage.
 Last edited: by AndyEN
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorgreyghost
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 1,453
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Use the "Credited As" field where the person's name differs from the credited name.

To determine whether to enter the name directly as credited, or to use the "Credited As" field, use the Credit Lookup tool.

These statements in the rules, just above what you quoted earlier, support the use of common names.
Registered: February 10, 2002
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,343
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
As greyghost said... right in the cast section of the rules it says to specifically to use it....

From the Rules:
"Use the "Credited As" field where the actor's name differs from the credited name."

As for the source the rules states

"It is not necessary to document the source of the common name, outside the use of the CLT. If there is a dispute over whether the credit references the same person, documentation may be necessary. However, in most cases it is not required."

I personally don't like how this is... but that is all we have for it. I don't like it because it seems to me with the people here the disputes can happen often. But in this case... it is very publically known and I don't see a dispute happening and even if there is it would be very easily documented.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNosferatu
Registered: March 24, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,235
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
In a situation like this, I would personally like to bypass the rules in the name of sensitivity, changing the common name to Elliot Page and using credited as field for his deadname.
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1  Previous   Next