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Confused about A&E / Biography credits ...
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantlasitter
Registered: May 30, 2008
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Arts & Entertainment Network
A&E Network
A&E

Has morphed and spun off so many times that it makes my head spin.

I'm now working on a profile for a an episode about Dwight D. Eisenhower, and I'm at a loss as to how to enter the DVD title and a bunch of other stuff.

From the front cover art:

A & E's Award Winning Series
Biography

Dwight D. Eisenhower
Commander-In-Chief

This supposedly aired first on June 6, 2004. The catalog number is AAE-71932.

It is supposedly episode 317 of 1172 episodes, but I can't find it on AETV.com.

IMDB thinks it's something like this:

Dwight D. Eisenhower: Supreme Commander-in-Chief (2004) (TV Episode)
- Biography (1987) (TV Series)

The title menu goes like this:
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Commander-In-Chief
Biography

So what are your votes for what goes into the original title / sort title?

Some other questions about cast and crew credits.

Many commentators and historians are presented thru the documentary, and their names and titles appear when they are on screen. None of them are credited in the end credits.

So in this instance:

George F. Will
Syndicated Columnist

Do I credit him as "name", himself, or does "syndicated columnist" get tucked in there somewhere?

And for an appearance by "Dr. John Smith", is he "John Smith" credited as "Dr. John Smith", even though none of these guys appear in opening or ending credits?

How and where do you identify people shown in archive footage but not identified in opening credits or ending credits or screen title / credit as they appear. For instance, you have archive footage of Mimi Eisenhower, and the narrator says "Mimi Eisenhower" when she appears on screen, but Mimi is nothing but a picture with no lines and no credits anywhere?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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I don't think you need an Original Title for this one, as the front cover pretty much matches the disc menu. And as Title, I would suggest: "Biography: Dwight D. Eisenhower: Commander-In-Chief".

Interviewees, identified by captions during the film, should be entered in your cast list BEFORE any cast mentioned in the end credits (usually just a "narrator"). Whether they should be entered as e.g. "Himself" or "Historian" in the role name field: I'm not so sure myself, to be honest, but I'm inclined to match the on-screen captions as closely as possible, so in this example I would probably enter "Historian" if that's what the caption says.

"Dr. John Smith": I would apply the honorifics rule here, so indeed "John Smith" credited as "Dr. John Smith".

And I would leave out people who are visible in archive footage only.

Just my 2 cents.

DJ
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I was just looking thru my other documentaries and "Crazy Love" looks promising.

"Name" him/herself (Friend/Biographer/Title/Whatever)

This doesn't seem remotely standardized, however.

For "This Film Is Not Yet Rated", no one is him/herself. John Waters is instead given the role of "Director, A Dirty Shame".  That's got to be confusing when you see people credited as "Director, Producer" above and more directors and producers down in the crew section.

The documentary is in color, except for the archival footage which is B/W, so I'm guessing the "color" checkbox?
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantlasitter
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More questions on this.

So I see the talking head of a retired US Army General.

Under that I get:

Wesley K. Clark
General, US Army, Retired

So does that follow the standard honorific rule of

Name:
Wesley K. Clark

CredAs:
[Wesley K. Clark, General, US Army, Retired]

And for family members ...

Julie Eisenhower Nixon
Granddaughter-in-law

Is the "Granddaughter-in-law" treated as an honorific, generating a credited as, OR ...

Does it just go out in parentheses next to the "Herself":

Julie Nixon Eisenhower                  Herself (Granddaughter-in-law)

John McCain
US Senator

John McCain [John McCain, US Senator]        Himself
-or-
John McCain                                                            Himself (US Senator)

Dr. William Ewald
Eisenhower Speech Writer

William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald, Eisenhower Speech Writer]      Himself
-or-
William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald]                  Himself (Eisenhower Speech Writer)

Thanks
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting lasitter:
Quote:
I was just looking thru my other documentaries and "Crazy Love" looks promising.

"Name" him/herself (Friend/Biographer/Title/Whatever)

This doesn't seem remotely standardized, however.

For "This Film Is Not Yet Rated", no one is him/herself. John Waters is instead given the role of "Director, A Dirty Shame".  That's got to be confusing when you see people credited as "Director, Producer" above and more directors and producers down in the crew section.

The documentary is in color, except for the archival footage which is B/W, so I'm guessing the "color" checkbox?


Role Names match the credits... we standardize to credits when there is a role given... when there is not a role given we are allowed to use other sources... but I personally leave the role blank when none given... which Ken himself said is also completely acceptable.

If there is both color footage and black and white footage it would be mixed as long as it falls into the 10% rule. Don't see how it matters if it is archival footage... it is still part of the documentary.
Pete
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Quoting lasitter:
Quote:
More questions on this.

So I see the talking head of a retired US Army General.

Under that I get:

Wesley K. Clark
General, US Army, Retired

So does that follow the standard honorific rule of

Name:
Wesley K. Clark

CredAs:
[Wesley K. Clark, General, US Army, Retired]

And for family members ...

Julie Eisenhower Nixon
Granddaughter-in-law

Is the "Granddaughter-in-law" treated as an honorific, generating a credited as, OR ...

Does it just go out in parentheses next to the "Herself":

Julie Nixon Eisenhower                  Herself (Granddaughter-in-law)

John McCain
US Senator

John McCain [John McCain, US Senator]        Himself
-or-
John McCain                                                            Himself (US Senator)

Dr. William Ewald
Eisenhower Speech Writer

William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald, Eisenhower Speech Writer]      Himself
-or-
William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald]                  Himself (Eisenhower Speech Writer)

Thanks


All these sounds like names and roles to me. I would not add Himself or Herself unless it shows that on screen or you could if it just shows the name alone.

I would go with...
Name: Julie Eisenhower Nixon
Role: Granddaughter-in-law

Name: William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald]
Role: Eisenhower Speech Writer

etc.

I have done a handful of documentaries myself... and this is how I have always done it.
Pete
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Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
All these sounds like names and roles to me. I would not add Himself or Herself unless it shows that on screen or you could if it just shows the name alone.

I would go with...
Name: Julie Eisenhower Nixon
Role: Granddaughter-in-law

Name: William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald]
Role: Eisenhower Speech Writer

etc.

I have done a handful of documentaries myself... and this is how I have always done it.


I have a problem with this.

Mary Jean Eisenhower is not playing the role of Eisenhower's granddaughter in a work of fiction or fiction based on true events. She IS Eisenhower's granddaughter. She is appearing on screen and speaking unscripted words about her own life.



Similarly, John McCain is not playing the role of a US Senator.



I personally favor ...

Name: John McCain
CredAs: John McCain, US Senator
Role: Himself

and because "granddaughter" seems an unlikely honorific to me ...
Name: Mary Jean Eisenhower
CredAs:
Role: Herself (Granddaughter)

But I could also live with
Name: John McCain
CredAs:
Role: Himself (US Senator)
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantlasitter
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Another detail on this is "Music by Pump Audio" in the end credits.

If this got a credit, what would it look like, for a company vs a person?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
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Sorry... but I completely disagree... It may not be a part they are playing in a scripted show... but it is still their role... their role in life. The way I said is the way I believe is correct per the rules we have. So for me at least... I would vote no to either of what you are suggesting.

Going by those screen caps I would only contribute or vote yes to...

Name: Mary Jean Eisenhower
Role: Granddaughter


Name: John McCain
Role: US Senator

Anything else I believe is against the rules as they are written.
Pete
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Quoting lasitter:
Quote:

I would go with...
Name: Julie Eisenhower Nixon
Role: Granddaughter-in-law

Name: William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald]
Role: Eisenhower Speech Writer

etc.

I have done a handful of documentaries myself... and this is how I have always done it.


I have a problem with this.

Mary Jean Eisenhower is not playing the role of Eisenhower's granddaughter in a work of fiction or fiction based on true events. She IS Eisenhower's granddaughter. She is appearing on screen and speaking unscripted words about her own life.



Similarly, John McCain is not playing the role of a US Senator.



I personally favor ...

Name: John McCain
CredAs: John McCain, US Senator
Role: Himself


This is way I've also done it. I can't recall getting any "no" votes or having a profile declined either.

Sorry Pete but "role in life" is a bit of a stretch to me. We are discussing the roles in film - not life.
 Last edited: by Kathy
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantCalebAndCo
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According to Merriam-Webster:

Quote:
role: the character played by an actor

: a part that someone or something has in a particular activity or situation

: the part that someone has in a family, society, or other group


For a "movie," the first definition would apply; for a documentary, the second and/or third.

Having dozens of people listed as  "Himself"/"Herself" as the Cast of a docu is not as useful as listing their roles.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
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Quoting Kathy:
Quote:
Quoting lasitter:
Quote:

I would go with...
Name: Julie Eisenhower Nixon
Role: Granddaughter-in-law

Name: William Ewald [Dr. William Ewald]
Role: Eisenhower Speech Writer

etc.

I have done a handful of documentaries myself... and this is how I have always done it.


I have a problem with this.

Mary Jean Eisenhower is not playing the role of Eisenhower's granddaughter in a work of fiction or fiction based on true events. She IS Eisenhower's granddaughter. She is appearing on screen and speaking unscripted words about her own life.



Similarly, John McCain is not playing the role of a US Senator.



I personally favor ...

Name: John McCain
CredAs: John McCain, US Senator
Role: Himself


This is way I've also done it. I can't recall getting any "no" votes or having a profile declined either.

Sorry Pete but "role in life" is a bit of a stretch to me. We are discussing the roles in film - not life.


See what CalebAndCo posted... he explained what I was trying to say much better. The second 2 definitions is what I was trying to say.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
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Quoting CalebAndCo:
Quote:

Having dozens of people listed as  "Himself"/"Herself" as the Cast of a docu is not as useful as listing their roles.


I believe both are equally useful and the rules support the use of "himself/herself".
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantlasitter
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In terms of honorifics, I certainly think that Senator as well as Generals qualify.

Since office holders retain their honorifics after leaving office, we typically address Bob Dole as "Senator Bob Dole" as well as addressing current office holder John McCain as "Senator John McCain".

I can see that we have a difference of opinion on the subject. Except for the "Music by Pump Audio" I've got enough for a complete submission now.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
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Quoting Kathy:
Quote:
Quoting CalebAndCo:
Quote:

Having dozens of people listed as  "Himself"/"Herself" as the Cast of a docu is not as useful as listing their roles.


I believe both are equally useful and the rules support the use of "himself/herself".


And I truly believe that adding himself or herself would be against the rules... as they are imho credited with a role. Just because the role matches who they are don't make it any less of a role.
Pete
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This is what I'm planning to go with for now. I know I'll get some no votes and the thing may get spiked, but it's aesthetically pleasing, more detailed and less confusing than many of the other documentaries I've looked at.

As a reminder, almost NONE of this shows up in the end credits.

They're listed in order of appearance.

What's in parentheses is exactly as it appears on the screen,

I thought about honorifics for the professors, but they're not credited as "Professor Jack M. Hall", so I did them the other way.

Still looking for guidance on the sound listing thing.
 Last edited: by lasitter
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